Author: Roberto Waldteufel
Date: 12:41:25 07/19/98
Go up one level in this thread
On July 19, 1998 at 11:49:33, Don Dailey wrote: >On July 18, 1998 at 20:48:29, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: > >> >>On July 18, 1998 at 10:58:09, Don Dailey wrote: >> >>>On July 17, 1998 at 22:00:27, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>On July 17, 1998 at 14:44:23, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 17, 1998 at 13:49:55, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Don, >>>>>> >>>>>>The more restrictions you add, the more programmers are excluded. I program in >>>>>>32-bit compiled Basic, and tweak intensively used code with Assembler, on a >>>>>>Pentium 333, so I guess that would disqualify me on three counts? I don't think >>>>>>there can be much argument that Assembler is best for performance, but harder to >>>>>>program in. So if a programmer accepts the challenge and puts in the extra >>>>>>effort to write an Assembler program that does exactly the same as an eqivalent >>>>>>C program, but twice as fast, surely this is a greater programming achievement? >>>>> >>>>>You are right. Your program should not be excluded because it is programmed in >>>>>Basic/Assembler. No problem. >>>>> >>>>>The Pentium 333 could be a problem if we decide that 300MHz is the limit, but >>>>>surely we could work around that in several ways. Maybe by giving you 10% less >>>>>time, as this was done in the last WMCCC in Paris when a fast computer was >>>>>playing against one of the provided K6-200. >>>>> >>>>>If we are wise enough (are we?) to try to solve such "problems" in a positive >>>>>way, the event could take place. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I don't think it is possible to completely separate "programming" from hardware. >>>>>>Programmers and programs exist only because of the hardware that supports them. >>>>>>To my mind, the "best chess programmer" is hardware dependant. It is about >>>>>>squeazing best possible chess out of a given hardware configuration, and as such >>>>>>I think that the "best programmer" of an Alpha is a different thing from the >>>>>>"best programmer" of an Intel. And in both cases, the programmer that writes an >>>>>>efficient Assembler program is likely to be the one to achieve the necessary >>>>>>efficiency,regardless of hardware. >>>>> >>>>>It is impossible to organize a stricly uniform platform event, I know. But it is >>>>>possible to get near that, which is interesting enough I think. >>>>> >>>>>We could say that the choice of the processor is one of the programmer's skills. >>>>>If we agree on "400MHz Alpha roughly as fast as 300MHz Intel for chess >>>>>programming", we are still comparing the programmer's skills. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>If it is not to be "anything goes" in terms of programming language, you get >>>>>>into a minefield of who to allow and who to exclude. What's wrong with Pascal, >>>>>>for instance? In the format you suggest, it should be called the "Chess >>>>>>C-programmer's Championship"! >>>>> >>>>>IMO, anything goes in term of programming language. So no problem with your >>>>>program or a Pascal program or a Cobol program. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>> >>>>Hi Christophe, >>>> >>>>Sounds good to me. I have always programmed out of necessity for the computer I >>>>owned at the time, which happens to be a P333 at present. It will run OK on >>>>other Pentiums, but I don't know where I would get hold of one! For a uniform >>>>(or nearly so) platform, it would probably be best if some publicity-seeking >>>>company could be persuaded to loan the hardware for the event. Then everyone >>>>gets the same hardware, and nobody has to travel with their computer "on their >>>>backs". I would be travelling alone, and transporting my PC as well as my >>>>ordinary luggage would pose very great logistical problems for me. >>>> >>>>I think the best thing about this kind of event is the chance to meet other >>>>programmers in person and exchange ideas. I have never actually met anyone else >>>>who programs chess except on the net. >>>> >>>>Best wishes, >>>>Roberto >>> >>>Well you are in for a treat then. My very first tournament was a >>>wonderful time for me even though my program almost finished in last >>>place. I had no expectations and could not have cared less, I simply >>>had a great time. >>> >>>In my case, just about everyone was willing to share their good >>>ideas with me and were very helpful to me. In particular, Tony >>>Sherzer the programmer of BeBe was very encouraging and made me >>>feel a part of the group. It's too bad I cannot tell him that >>>now. >>> >>>As soon as I got home I scrapped the program I had and started from >>>scratch on a new one which was light years ahead of the previous >>>one based on knowledge I had gained at this tournament. >>> >>>If you come, you will get treated the same way I did at this first >>>tournament. (Including the part where we beat up on your program :-) >>> >>>- Don >> >>Hi Don, >> >>I very much hope I can come, but it won't be easy for me. I would be on a very >>tight budget, the dates would be critical, and I don't know if I can transport >>my PC or not. If that is not possible, would there be any possibility to borrow >>the use an MIT computer when I arrived? If firm dates can be arranged by >>September it would help, because there are several dates which I have to commit >>myself to being here on, but if I know in advance when to avoid I have a better >>chance. >> >>Best wishes, >>Roberto > > >Roberto, > >Typically, most ACM tournaments try to provide some loaners for the >contestants. The world championship always has. They would try to >get several identical machines that were pretty fast. I don't think >you will have to worry about getting a machine. In most of these >tournaments 60 or 70 percent are running on the same provided hardware, >a few bring their own and the rest are remote machines. > >To the extent I am able, I want to push for the tournament to be as >low cost as possible for the contestants. But the World computer >chess championship has a long tradition of paying for airline >tickets, no entry fee and paying for rooms. I do not know if they >will be able to do that this time. If they cannot, then I will >still try to help us keep the costs down. My goal is to get as >many to come as possible. > >- Don Hi Don, This is very enocouraging! I had not even considered the possibility of such luxuries. If the ACM is willing and able to do this again I think it very likely that I will come. My main concern over expense was precisely for the things you mention, ie air fares and accommodation.. I wish you and the ACM every success. Best wishes Roberto
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