Author: Roy Eassa
Date: 15:40:24 04/19/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2002 at 17:25:12, Terry McCracken wrote: >On April 19, 2002 at 17:20:27, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On April 19, 2002 at 16:08:23, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On April 19, 2002 at 15:39:39, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>On April 19, 2002 at 14:07:13, John Merlino wrote: >>>> >>>>>This position came up in a game between myself and a friend: >>>>> >>>>>[D]6k1/5R2/7P/6K1/8/8/p5P1/6r1 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>The question is: can White draw (after 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q)? >>>>> >>>>>Chessmaster says this, but I suspect that the eval is simply because of the >>>>>difference in material (not the steadily dropping score): >>>>> >>>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>>0:00 2/3 -2.25 978 1.Ra7 a1=Q 2.h7+ Kh8 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>>0:00 3/4 -2.25 2266 1.Ra7 a1=Q 2.h7+ Kh8 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>>0:00 4/5 -2.63 6103 1.Ra7 a1=Q 2.Rxa1 Rxa1 3.g4 Ra5+ >>>>> 4.Kg6 Ra6+ 5.Kg5 >>>>>0:00 4/5 -2.60 7857 1.Rg7+ Kh8 2.Ra7 a1=Q 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>> 4.g4 Kh7 >>>>>0:00 5/6 -2.60 16712 1.Rg7+ Kh8 2.Ra7 a1=Q 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>> 4.g4 Kh7 >>>>>0:00 6/7 -4.04 45865 1.Rg7+ Kh8 2.Ra7 a1=Q 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>> 4.Kg6 Rg1 5.Kf5 Rxg2 >>>>>0:01 7/8 -4.66 145818 1.Rg7+ Kh8 2.Ra7 a1=Q 3.Rxa1 Rxa1 >>>>> 4.g4 Kh7 5.Kf4 Ra4+ 6.Kf5 Ra5+ >>>>> 7.Kf6 Kxh6 >>>>>0:02 7/8 -4.01 229288 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc4 8.g4 >>>>>0:04 8/9 -4.02 414062 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kd4 8.Qg4+ Kd5 9.Kh4 >>>>>0:09 9/10 -3.93 898261 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kd4 8.Qf6+ Kd3 9.Qg6+ Kc4 >>>>> 10.g4 >>>>>0:20 10/11 -3.76 2026714 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc6 8.Qe6+ Kc7 9.Qf7+ Kc8 >>>>> 10.Qf8+ Kb7 11.Qf7+ Kb6 >>>>>0:49 11/12 -3.63 4752637 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc6 8.Qe6+ Kc7 9.Qf7+ Kc8 >>>>> 10.Qe6+ Kb7 11.Qd7+ Ka6 12.Qd5 >>>>>1:39 12/13 -3.53 10149051 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc6 8.Qe6+ Kc7 9.Qf7+ Kc8 >>>>> 10.Qf8+ Kb7 11.Qe7+ Kb8 12.Qd8+ >>>>> Ka7 13.Qc7+ Ka6 >>>>>4:01 13/14 -3.42 25036829 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc6 8.Qe6+ Kc7 9.Qf7+ Kb6 >>>>> 10.Qe6+ Kb5 11.Qd5+ Kb4 12.Qe4+ >>>>> Kc3 13.Qe5+ Kc2 14.Qd5 >>>>>7:53 14/15 -3.35 50033731 1.h7+ Kxf7 2.h8=Q a1=Q 3.Qh5+ Kf8 >>>>> 4.Qf3+ Ke7 5.Qe4+ Kd6 6.Qg6+ Kc5 >>>>> 7.Qf5+ Kc6 8.Qe6+ Kc7 9.Qf7+ Kc8 >>>>> 10.Qf8+ Kb7 11.Qf7+ Kb6 12.Qg6+ >>>>> Kb5 13.Qd3+ Kc6 14.Qg6+ Kd5 15.Kf4 >>>>> >>>>>jm >>>> >>>>I'm just curious John, who had the White pieces and how did the game end? >>>>Did White get a draw, or let it slip away into a loss? >>>> >>>>There is no question about it that 1.h7+!! is not only the "Best" move but a >>>>"Forced" move as well. >>>> >>>>Everthing else loses quikly! >>>> >>>>Terry >>> >>>White resigned in this position. I was Black. This should show you the quality >>>of our play here at the CM offices. ;-) >>> >>>jm >> >>LOL! Thanks, however it's not so easy to see this draw accurately over the >>board, so your opponant shouldn't feel too bad for missing the draw. >>Nor you if you missed it! I know I'd have to think hard to keep the King in >>check!;) >> >> >>Here's a position, which is easy for computers for about 15 years well before >>5 and 6 man EGTB's or 4 in this case on micros. >> >>My old Mach III Master finds the drawing move instantly but needs to run to >>about 16 ply to see the draw is forced. >> >>Never even bothered to give this problem to modern chess programmes with or >>without tablebases. >> >> >>In this position White is to move and can draw, I'll quote an excerpt from >>Technique in Chess by Gerald Abrahams, copyright 1961. Opps....I hope I'm not >>in trouble for doing this!;) >> >>I remember solving this problem 21 years ago, when first learning the game. >>I think at the time it took me 20 min. to see all variations, not too bad for a >>beginner!:o) >> >>Now it looks like child's play, yet it does stump most beginners and even some >>good players who don't fully understand King and Pawn endings. >> >>I find it amusing when the "truth" is buried in such a simple pawn ending:o) >>Oh White was a master if I'm not mistaken?:o)) >> >> "The Rocket-propelled King" A study by Richard Reti. >> >>The position in the diagram was actually reached, in 1921, in a game played in >>Berlin. White confidently resigned. It was left to the genius of Reti to >>discover the draw. The King is terribly far from the Black pawn, and is far too >>slow to catch it in an ordinary way; but there is something in this position >>that seems to accelerate it tremendously. >> >> >>[D]7K/8/k1P5/7p/8/8/8/8 w - - >> >>Please no computers! Unless they are micros over 15 years old;) >> >>Terry I think it's the most famous chess puzzle of all time. Way too easy for today's desktop computers/apps, but Chess Genius on a 41 MHz Sony Clie (Palm OS) takes over a long time to show a draw score (I stopped it at 3 minutes). It shows the correct first move in about 5 seconds. Of course, the engine in this program was reportedly last updated in 1987, and the CPU is equivalent to a Pentium at about 3 MHz or less. :-)
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