Author: martin fierz
Date: 13:31:35 04/22/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 22, 2002 at 10:04:47, Slater Wold wrote: >On April 22, 2002 at 09:17:57, K. Burcham wrote: > >> >> >>most here have witnessed the different levels of program and hardware strength >>increases over the years. >>the programs used to be looked at as a toy, or a novelty. >>then the programs could beat a master. >>then the programs could beat a GM but with lots of losses. >>it seems now we are witnessing another phase of this growth. >>there are more GM losing to programs, but the difference is >> that the GM cannot win like he used to. now it seems we are >>going through a period of 4 out of 5, GM vs program games, being >>drawn. >> >>i feel that when someone can play 30 games against a variety >>of GM's, and draw almost every game, and occasionally win one, >>it would be very difficult for me to not call him a GM. >> >>also we know what the next logical level is here, once we get through >>this draw era. i think all here will witness the evolution of this >>next level, less draws and more wins. i think in this next level, >>it will become acceptable to all, to address programs as GM level. >>kburcham > >There are a few flaws here, I think. > >If a GM wants a draw against a computer, he gets the draw. Period. Taking >chances, and trying to get a win, is where GMs usually lose. > >This does NOT work against other GMs. I can't remember his name, but I once >heard a GM say, about Fischer, "I only wanted a draw, and yet, I resign in 20. >Everytime, the same thing. Play for draw, resign a few moves later." > >Therefore, I think the GM kind of "controls" the computer. Think about this; > >If Smirin wins, he gets a lot of money. If he draws, he gets a lot of money. >If he loses, he gets some money. like, for every win more he gets 1000$ more? it's not a HUGE payday, but on the other hand, getting 1500$ instead of 500 for playing 2 hours of chess is not something he would decline, i think... in the gulko-comps match and in the van wely - rebel match you could also see that the statement "GMs control comps" didnt work out particularly well when the GM was black. the really stupid choice of KID exchange by tiger and hiarcs made it easy for smirin as black... deep shredder is putting a lot more pressure on smirin right now. >He's going to get the easy wins, and draw every other game. Not because he >can't win, but because he cannot afford to lose. You have to take risks to win >against a computer, and those risks probably aren't worth $5k, or something to >that effect. the rules: 0 for a loss, 500 for a draw, 1500 for a win, guaranteed minimum prize 2500 for smirin. he already had that money after 3 games. why would he not play for wins, in the hope of getting one win and one loss instead of 2 draws? aloha martin > >Get a 2700 Elo GM, and tell him, "Beat this computer, get $1M. Draw or lose, >you get nothing." And you'll see a GM smash a computer. You have to make the >prize money ridiculous though, in order to make up for that fact that if he >loses, he doesn't get jack. > >I personally think that computers are, at their best, around 2600 Elo. Which of >course, is GM strength. But I also think that #1 - #5 in the world would make >these programs look silly. But you'll probably never see that. :(
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