Author: martin fierz
Date: 21:37:09 04/22/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 22, 2002 at 18:59:14, Slater Wold wrote: >On April 22, 2002 at 16:31:35, martin fierz wrote: > >>On April 22, 2002 at 10:04:47, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>>On April 22, 2002 at 09:17:57, K. Burcham wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>most here have witnessed the different levels of program and hardware strength >>>>increases over the years. >>>>the programs used to be looked at as a toy, or a novelty. >>>>then the programs could beat a master. >>>>then the programs could beat a GM but with lots of losses. >>>>it seems now we are witnessing another phase of this growth. >>>>there are more GM losing to programs, but the difference is >>>> that the GM cannot win like he used to. now it seems we are >>>>going through a period of 4 out of 5, GM vs program games, being >>>>drawn. >>>> >>>>i feel that when someone can play 30 games against a variety >>>>of GM's, and draw almost every game, and occasionally win one, >>>>it would be very difficult for me to not call him a GM. >>>> >>>>also we know what the next logical level is here, once we get through >>>>this draw era. i think all here will witness the evolution of this >>>>next level, less draws and more wins. i think in this next level, >>>>it will become acceptable to all, to address programs as GM level. >>>>kburcham >>> >>>There are a few flaws here, I think. >>> >>>If a GM wants a draw against a computer, he gets the draw. Period. Taking >>>chances, and trying to get a win, is where GMs usually lose. >>> >>>This does NOT work against other GMs. I can't remember his name, but I once >>>heard a GM say, about Fischer, "I only wanted a draw, and yet, I resign in 20. >>>Everytime, the same thing. Play for draw, resign a few moves later." >>> >>>Therefore, I think the GM kind of "controls" the computer. Think about this; >>> >>>If Smirin wins, he gets a lot of money. If he draws, he gets a lot of money. >>>If he loses, he gets some money. >> >>like, for every win more he gets 1000$ more? it's not a HUGE payday, but on the >>other hand, getting 1500$ instead of 500 for playing 2 hours of chess is not >>something he would decline, i think... >>in the gulko-comps match and in the van wely - rebel match you could also see >>that the statement "GMs control comps" didnt work out particularly well when the >>GM was black. the really stupid choice of KID exchange by tiger and hiarcs made >>it easy for smirin as black... deep shredder is putting a lot more pressure on >>smirin right now. >> >> >>>He's going to get the easy wins, and draw every other game. Not because he >>>can't win, but because he cannot afford to lose. You have to take risks to win >>>against a computer, and those risks probably aren't worth $5k, or something to >>>that effect. >> >>the rules: 0 for a loss, 500 for a draw, 1500 for a win, guaranteed minimum >>prize 2500 for smirin. he already had that money after 3 games. why would he not >>play for wins, in the hope of getting one win and one loss instead of 2 draws? >> >>aloha >> martin > >Oh geez, I don't know. $1k or so dollars maybe?! chess professionals don't make that much money. i once played the new york open, where the first prize was about 10K$, second 5K$ and third 3K$, the rest was more or less nothing. *60* grandmasters came to play in the hope of winning the 10K$. among them khalifman, bareev, and a bunch more over 2600. the only guys who do make a lot of money are those who get invitations to the good tournaments (linares etc), which is about the world's top 10 + polgar + korchnoi + some dutch players :-) i think smirin is genuinely trying, you can see by the games. i also think that the time control made him drop a half point or two. aloha martin > >> >> >>> >>>Get a 2700 Elo GM, and tell him, "Beat this computer, get $1M. Draw or lose, >>>you get nothing." And you'll see a GM smash a computer. You have to make the >>>prize money ridiculous though, in order to make up for that fact that if he >>>loses, he doesn't get jack. >>> >>>I personally think that computers are, at their best, around 2600 Elo. Which of >>>course, is GM strength. But I also think that #1 - #5 in the world would make >>>these programs look silly. But you'll probably never see that. :(
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