Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: GM, programs, and the draw era

Author: martin fierz

Date: 21:37:09 04/22/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 22, 2002 at 18:59:14, Slater Wold wrote:

>On April 22, 2002 at 16:31:35, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On April 22, 2002 at 10:04:47, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On April 22, 2002 at 09:17:57, K. Burcham wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>most here have witnessed the different levels of program and hardware strength
>>>>increases over the years.
>>>>the programs used to be looked at as a toy, or a novelty.
>>>>then the programs could beat a master.
>>>>then the programs could beat a GM but with lots of losses.
>>>>it seems now we are witnessing another phase of this growth.
>>>>there are more GM losing to programs, but the difference is
>>>>  that the GM cannot win like he used to. now it seems we are
>>>>going through a period of 4 out of 5, GM vs program games, being
>>>>drawn.
>>>>
>>>>i feel that when someone can play 30 games against a variety
>>>>of GM's, and draw almost every game, and occasionally win one,
>>>>it would be very difficult for me to not call him a GM.
>>>>
>>>>also we know what the next logical level is here, once we get through
>>>>this draw era. i think all here will witness the evolution of this
>>>>next level, less draws and more wins. i think in this next level,
>>>>it will become acceptable to all, to address programs as GM level.
>>>>kburcham
>>>
>>>There are a few flaws here, I think.
>>>
>>>If a GM wants a draw against a computer, he gets the draw.  Period.  Taking
>>>chances, and trying to get a win, is where GMs usually lose.
>>>
>>>This does NOT work against other GMs.  I can't remember his name, but I once
>>>heard a GM say, about Fischer, "I only wanted a draw, and yet, I resign in 20.
>>>Everytime, the same thing.  Play for draw, resign a few moves later."
>>>
>>>Therefore, I think the GM kind of "controls" the computer.  Think about this;
>>>
>>>If Smirin wins, he gets a lot of money.  If he draws, he gets a lot of money.
>>>If he loses, he gets some money.
>>
>>like, for every win more he gets 1000$ more? it's not a HUGE payday, but on the
>>other hand, getting 1500$ instead of 500 for playing 2 hours of chess is not
>>something he would decline, i think...
>>in the gulko-comps match and in the van wely - rebel match you could also see
>>that the statement "GMs control comps" didnt work out particularly well when the
>>GM was black. the really stupid choice of KID exchange by tiger and hiarcs made
>>it easy for smirin as black... deep shredder is putting a lot more pressure on
>>smirin right now.
>>
>>
>>>He's going to get the easy wins, and draw every other game.  Not because he
>>>can't win, but because he cannot afford to lose.  You have to take risks to win
>>>against a computer, and those risks probably aren't worth $5k, or something to
>>>that effect.
>>
>>the rules: 0 for a loss, 500 for a draw, 1500 for a win, guaranteed minimum
>>prize 2500 for smirin. he already had that money after 3 games. why would he not
>>play for wins, in the hope of getting one win and one loss instead of 2 draws?
>>
>>aloha
>>  martin
>
>Oh geez, I don't know.  $1k or so dollars maybe?!

chess professionals don't make that much money. i once played the new york open,
where the first prize was about 10K$, second 5K$ and third 3K$, the rest was
more or less nothing. *60* grandmasters came to play in the hope of winning the
10K$. among them khalifman, bareev, and a bunch more over 2600. the only guys
who do make a lot of money are those who get invitations to the good tournaments
(linares etc), which is about the world's top 10 + polgar + korchnoi + some
dutch players :-)

i think smirin is genuinely trying, you can see by the games. i also think that
the time control made him drop a half point or two.

aloha
  martin

>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Get a 2700 Elo GM, and tell him, "Beat this computer, get $1M.  Draw or lose,
>>>you get nothing."  And you'll see a GM smash a computer.  You have to make the
>>>prize money ridiculous though, in order to make up for that fact that if he
>>>loses, he doesn't get jack.
>>>
>>>I personally think that computers are, at their best, around 2600 Elo.  Which of
>>>course, is GM strength.  But I also think that #1 - #5 in the world would make
>>>these programs look silly.  But you'll probably never see that.  :(



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.