Author: pavel
Date: 09:49:43 04/27/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 27, 2002 at 12:36:10, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>On April 27, 2002 at 12:00:24, Robin Smith wrote:
>
>>It looks to me like Yace is more correct. Even if white loses the a3 pawn it
>>would still probably be a draw. The general "rule" is that you need an extra
>>rook's worth of material to win pawnless endings.
>
>I hope, you are correct :-) However I am not sure anymore. You have more or less
>described, how Yace evaluates this position. But in my todo list, there is a
>point, that I should check this, and perhaps change it.
>
>I remember a game, that Yace lost with the weaker side of (IIRC) KRBKBN. One can
>lookup this TB from Ken Thompson (it was not available at Robert Hyatt's site,
>however the TBS file that has only the statistics was available).
>
>I looked up all game positions at Thompson's site, and indeed it was at every
>move a forced win for the stronger side. At one or 2 moves, it was a draw,
>because the distance to conversion together with the moves already done exceeded
>the 50 moves rule. When I looked at the statistics in the TBS file, there were
>many wins (and many very long wins - but one cannot see the distance to
>conversion).
>
>I would like to know, how all the good players here see the "drawishness" of
>such pawnless (at least for the stronger side) endgames, where the stronger side
>has only a minor piece more, or perhaps even only and exchange (? I mean R vs.
>minor piece) more, in the more complicated cases (more than 3 pieces on the
>board). Would this judgement of "drawishness" depend on the kind of minor pieces
>(N vs. B, or only one side has B-pair). I would not be interested in the easy
>wins, that can be seen by search.
>
>BTW: Another exception from the rule: "A minor piece more is not enough to win
>without pawns" is KBBKN.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter
Actually Crafty won this game.
[Event "PAVS, 40'/40+40'/40+40'"]
[Site "PAVS"]
[Date "2002.04.27"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Yace 0.99.56"]
[Black "Crafty 18.14"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E99"]
[WhiteElo "2500"]
[BlackElo "2500"]
[PlyCount "184"]
{W=12.4 ply; 430kN/s
B=13.0 ply; 382kN/s; 258,790 TBAs
} 1. d4 {
White last book move 0.01/0 1} 1... Nf6 {2} 2. c4 {0.01/0 0} 2... g6 {1} 3. Nc3
{0.01/0 0} 3... Bg7 {0} 4. e4 {0.01/0 0} 4... O-O {0} 5. Be2 {0.01/0 0} 5... d6
{0} 6. Nf3 {0.01/0 0} 6... e5 {1} 7. O-O {0.01/0 0} 7... Nc6 {1} 8. d5 {
0.01/0 0} 8... Ne7 {0} 9. Ne1 {0.01/0 0} 9... Nd7 {1} 10. Nd3 {0.01/0 0} 10...
f5 {0} 11. Bd2 {0.01/0 0} 11... Nf6 {0} 12. f3 {0.01/0 0} 12... Rf7 {0} 13. Rc1
{0.01/0 0} 13... Qf8 {0} 14. c5 {0.01/0 0} 14... Bh6 {Black last book move 0}
15. Bxh6 {0.60/11 159} 15... Qxh6 {0.94/12 94} 16. Nb5 {0.44/11 161} 16... fxe4
{1.15/12 94} 17. fxe4 {0.58/11 138} 17... Nxe4 {(Qe3+) 0.79/11 92} 18. Rxf7 {
0.49/10 61} 18... Kxf7 {0.85/11 92} 19. Nxc7 {0.39/10 102} 19... Qe3+ {
(Rb8) 0.92/11 31} 20. Kh1 {0.41/10 48} 20... Rb8 {0.92/10 32} 21. cxd6 {
0.25/9 86} 21... Nxd6 {(Nf5) 0.93/10 33} 22. Bf1 {(Qf1+) 0.20/10 86} 22... Bf5
{(Qd4) -0.02/12 102} 23. Qf3 {0.25/11 54} 23... Qxf3 {(Qd4) 0.08/12 115} 24.
Nxe5+ {0.40/13 88} 24... Kf6 {0.01/14 101} 25. Nxf3 {0.29/13 88} 25... Be4 {
(Rc8) 0.10/13 102} 26. Re1 {0.34/11 54} 26... Nxd5 {0.19/13 119} 27. Nb5 {
0.37/12 80} 27... Nxb5 {0.16/14 100} 28. Rxe4 {0.35/13 82} 28... Nbc7 {
0.19/13 99} 29. Bc4 {(Kg1) 0.29/12 59} 29... b5 {0.14/12 114} 30. Bb3 {
0.33/12 62} 30... a5 {0.09/13 99} 31. Nd4 {(g4) 0.20/12 99} 31... a4 {
0.02/13 98} 32. Bc2 {(Bxd5) 0.25/12 53} 32... Nb4 {(Rd8) -0.02/12 116} 33. Bb1
{0.09/13 105} 33... Rd8 {-0.03/13 96} 34. Kg1 {(g3) -0.03/13 104} 34... Nba6 {
-0.08/13 95} 35. g3 {0.07/12 60} 35... Nc5 {(g5) -0.08/13 95} 36. Rf4+ {
0.03/13 113} 36... Kg7 {-0.09/14 95} 37. Kg2 {(Bc2) 0.04/13 113} 37... Nd5 {
-0.25/13 97} 38. Rf3 {0.03/12 68} 38... b4 {(Ne3+) -0.26/12 121} 39. Kh3 {
(h3) -0.07/11 128} 39... h5 {(Re8) -0.33/12 85} 40. a3 {(Bc2) -0.08/11 89}
40... b3 {-0.60/13 39} 41. Nb5 {(Kg2) -0.50/12 61} 41... Re8 {-1.09/14 61} 42.
Nd6 {(Nc3) -0.97/13 86} 42... Re2 {-1.65/14 79} 43. Rf7+ {-0.71/12 38} 43...
Kh6 {-1.65/14 20} 44. Ra7 {-1.11/12 54} 44... Rxb2 {(Ne7) -1.92/13 65} 45. Nf7+
{-0.68/12 37} 45... Kg7 {-2.27/15 62} 46. Ng5+ {-0.83/12 54} 46... Kf6 {
-2.35/15 62} 47. Nh7+ {-0.79/13 62} 47... Ke5 {-2.35/14 61} 48. Bxg6 {
-1.20/13 106} 48... Rf2 {-2.35/12 61} 49. Ra5 {-1.35/12 61} 49... Kd4 {
-2.49/13 63} 50. Ng5 {-1.51/12 59} 50... Nc3 {-2.61/12 64} 51. Ra8 {-1.68/11 34
} 51... b2 {-3.01/11 61} 52. Rb8 {-1.89/11 63} 52... Nb3 {(Ke5) -3.17/12 123}
53. Bh7 {(Ne6+) -1.63/11 62} 53... b1=Q {(Nc5) -3.29/12 69} 54. Rb4+ {
-0.73/13 62} 54... Ke3 {-3.31/15 60} 55. Bxb1 {-0.73/13 38} 55... Nxb1 {
-3.31/14 20} 56. Re4+ {-0.69/13 47} 56... Kd3 {-3.91/16 60} 57. Rxa4 {
-0.69/13 59} 57... Nd4 {-4.11/15 60} 58. g4 {(Ra7) -0.67/12 56} 58... Nc3 {
-4.47/13 117} 59. Ra6 {(Rxd4+) -0.82/11 77} 59... hxg4+ {-4.83/13 84} 60. Kxg4
{(Kg3) -0.82/12 64} 60... Rg2+ {-5.00/13 57} 61. Kh5 {-0.82/12 61} 61... Rxh2+
{-5.03/12 73} 62. Kg4 {(Kg6) -0.82/12 64} 62... Rg2+ {-5.01/12 56} 63. Kh5 {
-0.78/12 64} 63... Nd5 {(Kc4) -5.01/12 56} 64. Ra5 {-0.75/11 43} 64... Kc4 {
(Rh2+) -5.01/11 55} 65. Ra4+ {(Kh6) -0.79/11 55} 65... Kd3 {(Kc3) -5.00/12 56}
66. Ra5 {-0.79/12 44} 66... Kc4 {-4.99/11 99} 67. Ra4+ {-0.79/12 67} 67... Kc3
{-5.00/12 52} 68. Ra5 {-0.74/12 67} 68... Nf4+ {-4.99/11 60} 69. Kh6 {
-0.75/12 68} 69... Re2 {(Kb3) -4.98/11 54} 70. Kg7 {-0.72/10 60} 70... Kc4 {
(Kb3) -4.92/10 52} 71. Ra4+ {-0.72/10 37} 71... Kc3 {(Kd3) -4.90/11 52} 72. Ra5
{-0.73/11 71} 72... Kc4 {(Kb3) -4.89/10 55} 73. Ra4+ {-0.72/11 45} 73... Kd3 {
-4.84/12 53} 74. Ra5 {-0.71/11 75} 74... Re3 {(Rg2) -4.71/11 69} 75. Kh7 {
(Kf7) -0.71/10 45} 75... Kc4 {(Re8) -4.90/11 48} 76. Nf7 {(Ra7) -0.71/11 47}
76... Kb3 {-4.85/11 49} 77. Nd6 {-0.74/11 79} 77... Re7+ {(Nfe2) -4.82/11 48}
78. Kg8 {-0.71/12 93} 78... Rd7 {(Nc2) -4.82/11 52} 79. Ra6 {(Nb5) -0.82/13 94}
79... Nde6 {-5.00/13 45} 80. Nf7 {(Nf5) -0.82/13 93} 80... Re7 {
(Nc5) -5.00/12 23} 81. Ra5 {-0.82/12 60} 81... Rd7 {(Ng6) -5.00/12 99} 82. Ra6
{-0.82/13 59} 82... Rc7 {(Nc5) -5.00/13 67} 83. Ne5 {(Ra5) -0.88/12 57} 83...
Re7 {-5.26/13 65} 84. Rb6+ {-0.93/11 56} 84... Ka2 {-5.45/13 77} 85. Rd6 {
-5.00/13 234} 85... Nh5 {-6.90/13 61} 86. Rd2+ {(Ng4) -5.00/12 48} 86... Kb3 {
-6.90/14 59} 87. Rf2 {-5.09/13 47} 87... Ng5 {-6.95/13 62} 88. Nc6 {-5.21/12 46
} 88... Re8+ {-7.35/12 57} 89. Rf8 {0.01/0 0} 89... Nf6+ {-8.55/13 54} 90. Kg7
{-9.21/13 44} 90... Ne6+ {-8.55/12 53} 91. Kg6 {-12.46/13 171} 91... Rxf8 {
-8.75/12 51} 92. Na5+ {(Kf5) -15.98/13 109} 92... Kxa3 {-11.48/11 51} 0-1
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.