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Subject: Re: Longer time controls

Author: Keith Ian Price

Date: 15:06:05 04/29/02

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On April 29, 2002 at 17:46:04, Otello Gnaramori wrote:

>On April 29, 2002 at 17:13:31, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2002 at 16:55:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 29, 2002 at 16:15:27, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 29, 2002 at 15:50:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 29, 2002 at 13:56:58, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How do longer time controls affect humans and computers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For humans, the extra time mainly provides better "debugging" of one's analysis.
>>>>>> It also gives more chances to find different lines and greater depth, but these
>>>>>>are quite secondary for human GMs, IMHO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For computers, better debugging is (almost) not an issue.  They make no tactical
>>>>>>errors within their horizons.  What the extra time gives computers is mainly
>>>>>>greater search depth.  But doubling the time does not even add 1 ply usually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, which factor makes the bigger difference, GMs getting debugging that's twice
>>>>>>as good or computers getting less than 1 ply of greater depth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When GMs lose to computers, it's *almost always* due to insufficient debugging.
>>>>>>Doubling the time (for example) can make a HUGE difference here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When computers lose to GMs, it's *occasionally* due to insufficient depth that
>>>>>>could be cured by doubling the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously, both humans and GMs play stronger on an *absolute* scale when given
>>>>>>more time.  But I think it's most likely that GMs benefit *proportionally* much
>>>>>>MORE than computers do from the additional time.
>>>>>
>>>>>]
>>>>>It is trivial to test.  play some game/1 game/5 game/15 and game/60 games
>>>>>vs the same GM.  See what happens.  I already know. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Trivial?  Maybe YOU have a human GM lying around your house, waiting to do this,
>>>>but I don't!  ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>Play such a series of games against _any_ human...  the resulting curve will
>>>be roughly the same...
>>
>>dear bob,
>>
>>if you have such numbers, could you please post them? there are people here who
>>believe in things like "humans get tired if they think for a long time" and
>>other crazy stuff like that - i have no numbers to disprove their statements,
>>but i know they are wrong. do me a favor please :-)
>>
>>aloha
>>  martin
>
>Martin you should get a course in Basic Human Physiology before talking so harsh
>about scientific statements.
>We are not robots, we usually get tired (mentally and/or physically), we need to
>eat and we also need sleep sometimes :)
>
>w.b.r.
>Otello

Don't be so sure, Otello, you may have found the one forum, where that doesn't
hold true for most of its members. ;-)

kp




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