Author: Peter McKenzie
Date: 21:12:29 04/30/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 30, 2002 at 23:27:47, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On April 30, 2002 at 16:31:01, Peter McKenzie wrote: > >>On April 30, 2002 at 16:01:33, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>>On April 30, 2002 at 14:42:50, Jeroen Noomen wrote: >>> >>>>During the last 6 - 12 months I have noticed a trend that there are very clear >>>>indications that non-commercial programmers of chess programs make use of (parts >>>>of) commercially available books. As I was in Maastricht during the WMCCC in >>>>2001, lots of speculations and complaints were heard about this topic. From >>>>several sources I know that also the Rebel books have been ?hacked? by people (I >>>>will not mention their names, I am sure they know themselves whom I am talking >>>>about). As the Rebel books are my lifework I want to put a very clear statement >>>>in this forum. >>>> >>>>The Rebel books have been developped by me during a period of almost 14 years. >>>>Not only is it handmade, it also contains lots of stuff you will not find in >>>>other books. In the past it has happenend a few times that chess programs were >>>>caught as not being made by the programmer himself. Examples are Quick Step back >>>>in 1989, Greif, the several Crafty clones. As we can see from todays rules by >>>>the ICCA, such programs are not tolerated anymore. And in my view this is fully >>>>correct. >>>> >>>>Jeroen Noomen >>>>Bookauthor for Rebel and Chess Tiger >>> >>>I can understand your frustration. You've worked just as hard as Ed or >>>Christophe on Rebel/Tiger. No doubt your books add a considerable amount of Elo >>>to these programs, and I am sure Ed and Christophe are very appreciative of >>>that. >>> >>>However, I must warn you that laying claim to a series of chess opening moves is >>>not going to be easy to defend. You cannot copyright moves in chess, as you >>>cannot copyright dance moves. While you can copyright a mvs book, you are >>>actually only copyrighting the format. Again, you cannot copyright chess moves. >> >>This isn't a copyright issue, its not even a legal issue in the traditional >>sense. It is about the rules for a particular competition, namely the ICCA >>World Computer Chess Championship. If the rules say that you can't use someone >>elses book in the tournament (and its not even clear that they do say this), >>then you can't use someone elses book regardless of what copyright says. >> >>Of course ICCA can't send you to jail if you break their rules :-) But they can >>chuck you out of their tournament. >> >> > > > >Actually copyright law _does_ apply. You can't copyright a single chess >game, period. But you _can_ copyright a "collection" of games, because the >work expended to "collect" the games is something that copyright law >protects. It is very clear in this regard. IE you can't copyright a >single word, or a definition of a word. But you can copyright a collection >of words/definitions (called a dictionary of course) quite easily and >correctly. Bob, I guess you got my point but I will repeat it again to be absolutely clear: I don't know whether copyright does or does not apply, I was making the point that it does not matter. ICCA are free to implement this rule even if copyright does not apply. > >Opening books fit this perfectly... > > > > >>> >>>I think anyone found 'hacking' a chess program, or its book, should face a >>>severe punishment. Anyone claiming something is their, when in fact it is not, >>>should be punished. >>> >>>I am not defending these people, I am simply stating the fact that it would be >>>easier to encrypt the books, than to go after those stealing it.
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