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Subject: Re: Unauthorized use of Rebel books

Author: Peter McKenzie

Date: 21:12:29 04/30/02

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On April 30, 2002 at 23:27:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 30, 2002 at 16:31:01, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>
>>On April 30, 2002 at 16:01:33, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>On April 30, 2002 at 14:42:50, Jeroen Noomen wrote:
>>>
>>>>During the last 6 - 12 months I have noticed a trend that there are very clear
>>>>indications that non-commercial programmers of chess programs make use of (parts
>>>>of) commercially available books. As I was in Maastricht during the WMCCC in
>>>>2001, lots of speculations and complaints were heard about this topic.  From
>>>>several sources I know that also the Rebel books have been ?hacked? by people (I
>>>>will not mention their names, I am sure they know themselves whom I am talking
>>>>about). As the Rebel books are my lifework I want to put a very clear statement
>>>>in this forum.
>>>>
>>>>The Rebel books have been developped by me during a period of almost 14 years.
>>>>Not only is it handmade, it also contains lots of stuff you will not find in
>>>>other books. In the past it has happenend a few times that chess programs were
>>>>caught as not being made by the programmer himself. Examples are Quick Step back
>>>>in 1989, Greif, the several Crafty clones. As we can see from todays rules by
>>>>the ICCA, such programs are not tolerated anymore. And in my view this is fully
>>>>correct.
>>>>
>>>>Jeroen Noomen
>>>>Bookauthor for Rebel and Chess Tiger
>>>
>>>I can understand your frustration.  You've worked just as hard as Ed or
>>>Christophe on Rebel/Tiger.  No doubt your books add a considerable amount of Elo
>>>to these programs, and I am sure Ed and Christophe are very appreciative of
>>>that.
>>>
>>>However, I must warn you that laying claim to a series of chess opening moves is
>>>not going to be easy to defend.  You cannot copyright moves in chess, as you
>>>cannot copyright dance moves.  While you can copyright a mvs book, you are
>>>actually only copyrighting the format.  Again, you cannot copyright chess moves.
>>
>>This isn't a copyright issue, its not even a legal issue in the traditional
>>sense.  It is about the rules for a particular competition, namely the ICCA
>>World Computer Chess Championship.  If the rules say that you can't use someone
>>elses book in the tournament (and its not even clear that they do say this),
>>then you can't use someone elses book regardless of what copyright says.
>>
>>Of course ICCA can't send you to jail if you break their rules :-)  But they can
>>chuck you out of their tournament.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Actually copyright law _does_ apply.  You can't copyright a single chess
>game, period.  But you _can_ copyright a "collection" of games, because the
>work expended to "collect" the games is something that copyright law
>protects.  It is very clear in this regard.  IE you can't copyright a
>single word, or a definition of a word.  But you can copyright a collection
>of words/definitions (called a dictionary of course) quite easily and
>correctly.

Bob, I guess you got my point but I will repeat it again to be absolutely clear:

I don't know whether copyright does or does not apply, I was making the point
that it does not matter.  ICCA are free to implement this rule even if copyright
does not apply.

>
>Opening books fit this perfectly...
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>I think anyone found 'hacking' a chess program, or its book, should face a
>>>severe punishment. Anyone claiming something is their, when in fact it is not,
>>>should be punished.
>>>
>>>I am not defending these people, I am simply stating the fact that it would be
>>>easier to encrypt the books, than to go after those stealing it.



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