Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Unauthorized use of Rebel books

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 02:04:45 05/01/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 01, 2002 at 04:17:12, Uri Blass wrote:

>On May 01, 2002 at 02:54:16, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>I present 5 basic hypothetical situations that are relevant to the discussion in
>>this thread. Feel free to add more of course:
>>
>>
>>I. Kasparov and human Player A play a long match. Kasparov plays many very nice
>>opening novelties. After the match, Player A decides to employ these novelties
>>himself. Player A goes on to win many games and tournaments as a consequence.
>>
>>II. Program W does not yet have an opening book. It's programer decides to
>>compile an opening book, from many other sources. These sources consist of
>>analysis and games from other programs and players plus a small percentage that
>>is the programer's own original analysis. Program W goes on to win many games
>>and tournaments as a consequence.
>>
>>III. Program X employs an advanced opening learning heuristic. This heuristic
>>allows the program to learn opening continations and their effectiveness on its
>>own. It is pitted against Rebel by it's programer. They play several hundred 1
>>minute bullet games.  As a result, Program X has for the most part absorbed all
>>the most important opening continuations from Rebel. Program Y continues to
>>employ the opening learning heuristic against many other players and programs.
>>This includes games with long time controls of course. Program X goes on to win
>>many games and tournaments as a consequence.
>>
>>IV. Program Y employs a simple learning heuristic. This heuristic allows the
>>program to learn which opening lines are effective with and which lines are not.
>>This allows it to play the most  effective continuations in its games. Programer
>>of Program Y copies the moves of Rebel's book, but not its evaluations. After a
>>great many self-play games it learns which lines it is most effective with.
>>Program Y goes on to win many games and tournaments as a consequence.
>>
>>V. Program Z does not possess a learning heuristic. Its programmer copies
>>Rebel's book along with its evaluations. Program Z goes on to win many games and
>>tournaments as a consequence.
>>
>>
>>My sparse commentary on the above follows:
>>
>>1. Of course, the normal case is I. Perfectly acceptable. A humans "book" is
>>largely derivative of others.
>>
>>2. You appear to be II, correct? This is also a normal case and the resulting
>>book is largely derivative of other peoples work too.
>>
>>3. I personally see no significant difference from I, II & III.
>>
>>4. IV appears to be a marginal case. Personally, I see nothing wrong with IV,
>>since the new evaluations are important enough to me to give its book sufficient
>>independent standing.
>>
>>5. I think that only V, is truly wrong.
>>
>>
>>One possible solution for you would be encrypt your book. This would take care
>>of IV & V.
>
>I am not sure about it.
>
>It is possible to copy Rebel's book by playing millions of games against it and
>trying everything that is possible.
>
>This process may be done automatically by a program that plays 1 minute/game
>time control against Rebel and resigns when Rebel is out of book.
>
>Uri

That's why I included situation III. If you read further down to the last
paragraph, a part you snipped, I allude to precisely this point.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.