Author: Ron Murawski
Date: 11:02:23 05/02/02
Go up one level in this thread
On May 02, 2002 at 13:19:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On May 02, 2002 at 12:06:32, Ron Murawski wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2002 at 11:40:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 02, 2002 at 11:22:14, Ron Murawski wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>This one is not too tough, but some engines don't see it.
>>>>
>>>>[D] 2b1r3/6kn/1q1p1pp1/1pnPb2p/r1pBP2P/2P3N1/P2QNRP1/1B3R1K w - - 0 43
>>>>
>>>>bm: Nxh5+
>>>>
>>>>This was from a game, it was Horizon's 43rd move.
>>>>
>>>>[Event "Computer chess game"]
>>>>[Site "JUBBY"]
>>>>[Date "2002.05.02"]
>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>[White "Horizon"]
>>>>[Black "Quark v1.50"]
>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>[TimeControl "40/900"]
>>>>
>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8.
>>>>c3 O-O 9. h3 h6 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. Nf1 Bb7 13. Ng3 Na5 14. Bc2 Nc4
>>>>15. Bd3 c5 16. d5 Nb6 17. Be3 c4 18. Bc2 Qc7 19. Nh4 g6 20. Qd2 Kh7 21. Kf1
>>>>Bg7 22. f4 exf4 23. Bxf4 Nfd7 24. Nf3 a5 25. Nd4 Ba6 26. Nc6 Na4 27. Rab1
>>>>Nac5 28. Kg1 Bb7 29. Nd4 Qb6 30. Be3 Be5 31. Bf2 Nf6 32. Nde2 a4 33. Rf1
>>>>Kg7 34. Rbe1 a3 35. bxa3 Rxa3 36. Bb1 Ra4 37. Bd4 Rh8 38. Rf3 Nh7 39. Ref1
>>>>f6 40. R3f2 Re8 41. Kh1 h5 42. h4 Bc8 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Nxf6 45. Qg5+
>>>>Kh7 46. Rxf6 Bxf6 47. Bxf6 Re7 48. Qxh5+ Kg8 49. Qh8+ Kf7 50. Qg7+ Ke8 51.
>>>>Qxe7#
>>>>{White Mates} 1-0
>>>>
>>>>Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>This isn't a "king safety" position. It is a pure tactical position:
>>>
>>> 9 1.18 0.19 43. Bxe5 Rxe5 44. Nd4 Bd7 45. Qf4 Qc7
>>> 46. Kg1 Re7 47. Rf3 Kg8
>>> 9 6.12 ++ 43. Nxh5+!!
>>> 9 9.40 3.10 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Rxf6
>>> Nxf6 46. Qg5+ Kh7 47. e5+ Nd3 48. Bxb6
>>> Nxd5 49. Qxh5+
>>> 9-> 9.40 3.10 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Rxf6
>>> Nxf6 46. Qg5+ Kh7 47. e5+ Nd3 48. Bxb6
>>> Nxd5 49. Qxh5+
>>> 10 14.68 ++ 43. Nxh5+!!
>>> 10 27.20 4.34 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Bxf6+
>>> Kg6 46. e5+ Nd3 47. Bxd3+ cxd3 48.
>>> Qxd3+ Kh6 49. Bg5+ Nxg5 50. Rf6+ Kg7
>>> 51. Qg6+ Kh8 52. Qxe8+ Kg7 53. Qg6+
>>> Kh8 54. Qxg5
>>> 10-> 27.35 4.34 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Bxf6+
>>> Kg6 46. e5+ Nd3 47. Bxd3+ cxd3 48.
>>> Qxd3+ Kh6 49. Bg5+ Nxg5 50. Rf6+ Kg7
>>> 51. Qg6+ Kh8 52. Qxe8+ Kg7 53. Qg6+
>>> Kh8 54. Qxg5
>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Maybe I don't understand the meaning of "king safety"? I thought it meant king
>>mating threats. No???
>
>Not in the context I normally see this term used in. "tactics" is what happens
>when you shuffle pieces and win material. That is what this one is about. King
>safety usually means there is no win or loss of material, but you have a move
>that does something to affect king safety. IE if a program allows black to play
>Bxf3 and white has to play gxf3, then white's king is somewhat exposed on the
>g-file. No material has been won, no mate has been seen, but the king position
>is "weaker" than before. Or things like black playing Bxh2 followed by white
>playing g3 and black goes for Bxg3 fxg3 Qxg3 with a piece for three pawns
>(bad) but a horribly open white kingside (good). King safety is about making
>such "knowldege" judgements rather than just a forced sequence of moves that
>any search will see...
>
>
>
>>
>>How does a "pure tactical" mate-threat position differ from a "king safety"
>>position?
>
>You could remove the static evaluation software totally and just have a
>material-only evaluation and yet the program would still find the tactical
>answer because it is _only_ about winning material. King safety is generally
>a positional (non-material) consideration...
>
>
>
>>
>>BTW, is it possible that this position is a test of move extensions while in
>>check?
>
>That too... that is a part of "tactics"...
>
>
>>
>>Ron
Bob,
Thanks for your clear explanation. I think that next time I post a position I
will call it "Test position" and be not-incorrect. ;-)
Ron
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