Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:48:44 05/03/02
Go up one level in this thread
On May 02, 2002 at 13:22:52, Roy Eassa wrote:
>
>But king safety could help an engine find it SOONER, right?
>
I don't think so, but based only on a quick look. IE Crafty fails high
to +3 quickly. That is not a positional score but a real win in material...
>
>
>On May 02, 2002 at 13:19:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2002 at 12:06:32, Ron Murawski wrote:
>>
>>>On May 02, 2002 at 11:40:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 02, 2002 at 11:22:14, Ron Murawski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>This one is not too tough, but some engines don't see it.
>>>>>
>>>>>[D] 2b1r3/6kn/1q1p1pp1/1pnPb2p/r1pBP2P/2P3N1/P2QNRP1/1B3R1K w - - 0 43
>>>>>
>>>>>bm: Nxh5+
>>>>>
>>>>>This was from a game, it was Horizon's 43rd move.
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "Computer chess game"]
>>>>>[Site "JUBBY"]
>>>>>[Date "2002.05.02"]
>>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>>[White "Horizon"]
>>>>>[Black "Quark v1.50"]
>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>[TimeControl "40/900"]
>>>>>
>>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8.
>>>>>c3 O-O 9. h3 h6 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. Nf1 Bb7 13. Ng3 Na5 14. Bc2 Nc4
>>>>>15. Bd3 c5 16. d5 Nb6 17. Be3 c4 18. Bc2 Qc7 19. Nh4 g6 20. Qd2 Kh7 21. Kf1
>>>>>Bg7 22. f4 exf4 23. Bxf4 Nfd7 24. Nf3 a5 25. Nd4 Ba6 26. Nc6 Na4 27. Rab1
>>>>>Nac5 28. Kg1 Bb7 29. Nd4 Qb6 30. Be3 Be5 31. Bf2 Nf6 32. Nde2 a4 33. Rf1
>>>>>Kg7 34. Rbe1 a3 35. bxa3 Rxa3 36. Bb1 Ra4 37. Bd4 Rh8 38. Rf3 Nh7 39. Ref1
>>>>>f6 40. R3f2 Re8 41. Kh1 h5 42. h4 Bc8 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Nxf6 45. Qg5+
>>>>>Kh7 46. Rxf6 Bxf6 47. Bxf6 Re7 48. Qxh5+ Kg8 49. Qh8+ Kf7 50. Qg7+ Ke8 51.
>>>>>Qxe7#
>>>>>{White Mates} 1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This isn't a "king safety" position. It is a pure tactical position:
>>>>
>>>> 9 1.18 0.19 43. Bxe5 Rxe5 44. Nd4 Bd7 45. Qf4 Qc7
>>>> 46. Kg1 Re7 47. Rf3 Kg8
>>>> 9 6.12 ++ 43. Nxh5+!!
>>>> 9 9.40 3.10 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Rxf6
>>>> Nxf6 46. Qg5+ Kh7 47. e5+ Nd3 48. Bxb6
>>>> Nxd5 49. Qxh5+
>>>> 9-> 9.40 3.10 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Rxf6
>>>> Nxf6 46. Qg5+ Kh7 47. e5+ Nd3 48. Bxb6
>>>> Nxd5 49. Qxh5+
>>>> 10 14.68 ++ 43. Nxh5+!!
>>>> 10 27.20 4.34 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Bxf6+
>>>> Kg6 46. e5+ Nd3 47. Bxd3+ cxd3 48.
>>>> Qxd3+ Kh6 49. Bg5+ Nxg5 50. Rf6+ Kg7
>>>> 51. Qg6+ Kh8 52. Qxe8+ Kg7 53. Qg6+
>>>> Kh8 54. Qxg5
>>>> 10-> 27.35 4.34 43. Nxh5+ gxh5 44. Rxf6 Bxf6 45. Bxf6+
>>>> Kg6 46. e5+ Nd3 47. Bxd3+ cxd3 48.
>>>> Qxd3+ Kh6 49. Bg5+ Nxg5 50. Rf6+ Kg7
>>>> 51. Qg6+ Kh8 52. Qxe8+ Kg7 53. Qg6+
>>>> Kh8 54. Qxg5
>>>
>>>
>>>Bob,
>>>
>>>Maybe I don't understand the meaning of "king safety"? I thought it meant king
>>>mating threats. No???
>>
>>Not in the context I normally see this term used in. "tactics" is what happens
>>when you shuffle pieces and win material. That is what this one is about. King
>>safety usually means there is no win or loss of material, but you have a move
>>that does something to affect king safety. IE if a program allows black to play
>>Bxf3 and white has to play gxf3, then white's king is somewhat exposed on the
>>g-file. No material has been won, no mate has been seen, but the king position
>>is "weaker" than before. Or things like black playing Bxh2 followed by white
>>playing g3 and black goes for Bxg3 fxg3 Qxg3 with a piece for three pawns
>>(bad) but a horribly open white kingside (good). King safety is about making
>>such "knowldege" judgements rather than just a forced sequence of moves that
>>any search will see...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>How does a "pure tactical" mate-threat position differ from a "king safety"
>>>position?
>>
>>You could remove the static evaluation software totally and just have a
>>material-only evaluation and yet the program would still find the tactical
>>answer because it is _only_ about winning material. King safety is generally
>>a positional (non-material) consideration...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>BTW, is it possible that this position is a test of move extensions while in
>>>check?
>>
>>That too... that is a part of "tactics"...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Ron
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