Author: Slater Wold
Date: 20:07:23 05/03/02
Go up one level in this thread
On May 03, 2002 at 20:45:56, James Robertson wrote: >So basically, if you paw through a book by hand and copy moves that's not >illegal, but if you use some sort of program to convert the book to a new format >it is.... That seems to make sense. Exactly. And I think so too. >I suppose the latter case is what Jeroen was worried about originally? Maybe the >first (pawing through the book) isn't so great either, but I suppose its not >much different from looking through a real book (one intended for people :) and >using it to prepare openings. Of course. He works hard on his books, and to see people rip them off must make him upset. However, like I said, if you don't want to see your greatness being ripped off, selling it with one of the most popular chess engines isn't a good way to prevent that. >James > >On May 03, 2002 at 17:13:59, Slater Wold wrote: > >>First of all, I want to state that I do NOT support and/or condone the stealing >>of others works for their own good. If you want a good opening book, make your >>own. Jeroen spent a LOT of time perfecting his book, and it IS his work, not >>anyone elses. Don't be lazy. Make your own. >> >>HOWEVER, in every case, there are 2 sides. Each side has their arguement, and >>not always is someone clearly the winner of the arguement. Remember, even the >>most cold-blooded killers get a defense in court, and who wants to defend >>someone who you KNOW is guilty? Neverless, I take legal matters such as Robert >>Hyatt takes math and science. You post a thread that 432423 + 234325 is >>somewhere around 66,000 and Hyatt's going to add them together, and give you an >>ACTUAL figure. That's all I am doing here, giving an ACTUAL figure. >> >> >>The company I work for gives all its employees free legal representation. While >>not all legal procedings are covered, all questions/research over the phone are. >> I called a "company" lawyer a few days ago and presented him with Jeroen's >>problem. This is what he told me: >> >>1.) If Jeroen has *ever* gotten paid 1 penny from Rebel, the books are not his. >> If Ed or Christophe have ever bought him dinner, given him any kind of reward >>and/or compensation, he has NO legal claim to his books. This is a "for-hire" >>copyright, and according to US and International copyright laws, if you are >>compensated for something that recieves and/or is claimed under copyright laws, >>the copyright is not that of the creator, rather the person who paid for the >>work. >> >>2.) Because the books are sold as part of a "Chess Program" the book would >>actual fall under the "Chess Program" copyright. You cannot copyright 10 things >>and sell them all under the same title. They all must be copyrighted together. >>In other words, works are protected under copyright. NOT parts of work. >> >>3.) Only the code that generates chess moves are protected under copyright. >>Not the actual moves that it plays. Example: If I can get Crafty to play every >>single move that Rebel 4.0 will play, at the same ply, same speed, with the same >>PV, but can do it with at least 40% different code, I am not in violation of any >>copyright laws. This is the same part of the law that makes it impossible for >>me as a chess player, to get sued for copyright infrigment if I am caught using >>a chess program in a REAL chess match (cheating). Once again, only the code of >>the program is covered under copyright laws, NOT the moves it makes. >> >>4.) Because the book is SOLD, it holds "free use". Example: Say I as a human, >>were to study Jeroen's book for a year. Can he sue me because I play his >>opening lines in a REAL OTB game? NO HE CANNOT. Not even if there comes a day >>where I have Jeroen's entire tournament book in my head. Therefore, if I put >>work into going through his books, and import them into my engine, there is no >>copyright violation. Because I am using knowledge that is readily available to >>ANYONE who has bought the program, and importing them based on what the program >>I bought is telling me, I have every right as a paying customer to use the >>knowledge given to me by this program. >> >>5.) It IS illegal to hack a computer program to extract ANY data that it would >>never display on the screen. Therefore, if I obtained Jeroen's book by hacking >>the program and/or book format, I would be in violation of SEVERAL laws. >>Including copyright laws. >> >>And to boot: >> >>6.) Because Jeroen is an employee of Rebel, his actions and/or threats are a >>direct reflection of the Rebel company. Therefore, if Jeroen convinces the ICCA >>to write a rule that says an opening book must be original, and there comes a >>time where he claims someone is using his book, Jeroen and Rebel better be damn >>sure they've copied it in an illegal way. Cause calling someone out as a >>cheater is slander, and it usually comes at a hefty price. >> >> >>Like I said, I am not protecting anyone who may want, or who may have stole >>Jeroen's work. But it's not exactly "illegal". If you don't want someone to >>steal your lines, don't sell them.
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