Author: Jeroen Noomen
Date: 01:12:54 05/04/02
Go up one level in this thread
On May 03, 2002 at 17:13:59, Slater Wold wrote: If you are going to post something about my connection to the Rebel Company, I would first check this out, f.e. by asking me. For me it is very funny that you talk about law and come with some statements that you haven't checked. To be very clear about this: I am not an employee of the Rebel company. Besides, the matter I was discussing here in this forum had to do with hacking the book (your point nr. 5 below). People had hacked the code in which the Rebel book was written and converted it to their own format. And I find it fully correct that something should be done about this. To add another point to this discussion: What about the various possibilities under the available GUI's? Any program that runs under such a GUI can use ANY book that is available. Giving it a huge advantage over other programs that do not run under this specific GUI. It is easy to melt together several books and use them for your own program. As far as I am concerned, this is very worrysome for the W(M)CCC and other important competitions. I was in Maastricht last year and I saw that programs like Ferret, Crafty, Diep, Spider Chess, XiniX, Pharaon were severely handicapped by the fact that they had to fight programs that used 'loaned' books. A few people tried to convince me 'well Jeroen, it makes it easy for you: You just have to crack a few books to get a good result for Tiger'. But as I am a person who wants fair competition, I don't like this trend and therefore I want to do something about it. If rules stay the same, the ICCA says 'it is not a problem for us' okay, so be it. But there HAS TO BE a discussion about it. Of course after a final decision has been made, I will always ask myself what to do. If I don't like it or come to the conclusion that unfair competition is allowed, I simply will not attend to such a tournament anymore. One final point about your last line (If you don't want somebody to steal your lines, don't sell them): Suppose I would do this? Than thousands of customers are losing the possibility to learn from my books as there are some guys who want to illegally hack them. Is this what you want? Some people spoiling it for the rest? Jeroen >First of all, I want to state that I do NOT support and/or condone the stealing >of others works for their own good. If you want a good opening book, make your >own. Jeroen spent a LOT of time perfecting his book, and it IS his work, not >anyone elses. Don't be lazy. Make your own. > >HOWEVER, in every case, there are 2 sides. Each side has their arguement, and >not always is someone clearly the winner of the arguement. Remember, even the >most cold-blooded killers get a defense in court, and who wants to defend >someone who you KNOW is guilty? Neverless, I take legal matters such as Robert >Hyatt takes math and science. You post a thread that 432423 + 234325 is >somewhere around 66,000 and Hyatt's going to add them together, and give you an >ACTUAL figure. That's all I am doing here, giving an ACTUAL figure. > > >The company I work for gives all its employees free legal representation. While >not all legal procedings are covered, all questions/research over the phone are. > I called a "company" lawyer a few days ago and presented him with Jeroen's >problem. This is what he told me: > >1.) If Jeroen has *ever* gotten paid 1 penny from Rebel, the books are not his. > If Ed or Christophe have ever bought him dinner, given him any kind of reward >and/or compensation, he has NO legal claim to his books. This is a "for-hire" >copyright, and according to US and International copyright laws, if you are >compensated for something that recieves and/or is claimed under copyright laws, >the copyright is not that of the creator, rather the person who paid for the >work. > >2.) Because the books are sold as part of a "Chess Program" the book would >actual fall under the "Chess Program" copyright. You cannot copyright 10 things >and sell them all under the same title. They all must be copyrighted together. >In other words, works are protected under copyright. NOT parts of work. > >3.) Only the code that generates chess moves are protected under copyright. >Not the actual moves that it plays. Example: If I can get Crafty to play every >single move that Rebel 4.0 will play, at the same ply, same speed, with the same >PV, but can do it with at least 40% different code, I am not in violation of any >copyright laws. This is the same part of the law that makes it impossible for >me as a chess player, to get sued for copyright infrigment if I am caught using >a chess program in a REAL chess match (cheating). Once again, only the code of >the program is covered under copyright laws, NOT the moves it makes. > >4.) Because the book is SOLD, it holds "free use". Example: Say I as a human, >were to study Jeroen's book for a year. Can he sue me because I play his >opening lines in a REAL OTB game? NO HE CANNOT. Not even if there comes a day >where I have Jeroen's entire tournament book in my head. Therefore, if I put >work into going through his books, and import them into my engine, there is no >copyright violation. Because I am using knowledge that is readily available to >ANYONE who has bought the program, and importing them based on what the program >I bought is telling me, I have every right as a paying customer to use the >knowledge given to me by this program. > >5.) It IS illegal to hack a computer program to extract ANY data that it would >never display on the screen. Therefore, if I obtained Jeroen's book by hacking >the program and/or book format, I would be in violation of SEVERAL laws. >Including copyright laws. > >And to boot: > >6.) Because Jeroen is an employee of Rebel, his actions and/or threats are a >direct reflection of the Rebel company. Therefore, if Jeroen convinces the ICCA >to write a rule that says an opening book must be original, and there comes a >time where he claims someone is using his book, Jeroen and Rebel better be damn >sure they've copied it in an illegal way. Cause calling someone out as a >cheater is slander, and it usually comes at a hefty price. > > >Like I said, I am not protecting anyone who may want, or who may have stole >Jeroen's work. But it's not exactly "illegal". If you don't want someone to >steal your lines, don't sell them.
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