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Subject: Re: Book part of the engine? (was: Unauthorized use of Rebel books)

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 06:39:35 05/05/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 04, 2002 at 06:19:01, Andrew Williams wrote:

>On May 03, 2002 at 14:39:54, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2002 at 13:29:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 01, 2002 at 14:41:39, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 01, 2002 at 10:02:58, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 01, 2002 at 09:33:58, Jeroen Noomen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>In the meantime I have sent a letter to the ICCA to clarify matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeroen
>>>>>
>>>>>In a competition, do you consider a book part of the engine?
>>>>>Is anything about this included in your proposal?
>>>>>I have not seen your opinion about this. (maybe I lost it in the dozens
>>>>>of replies).
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Miguel
>>>>
>>>>IMO the engine is the part of the program that selects a move to play. Since the
>>>>opening book, and EGTB's are used to select a move to play, they are part of the
>>>>engine, IMO.
>>>>
>>>>Russell
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't count EGTBs because of the nature of the information they contain.
>>>
>>>Steven Edwards did tables.  Eugene did them in a different format.  Thompson
>>>did the same followed by Stiller.  Bruce did his own format.  Vincent did one
>>>although I don't know if he ever finished it.
>>>
>>>But, with all of that, they are all accessed in the same way, and they produce
>>>the same identical information for the same position.  Therefore there is
>>>nothing "unique" in them that would make my version distinct from your version,
>>>other than the compression technique (if any) and the order of the pieces used
>>>to produce the Godel number.
>>>
>>>I see no problem with people sharing a good list of random numbers to see the
>>>Zobrist hashing algorithm, any more than I see any problem sharing tables, since
>>>the two kinds of data are identical in nature.  Books are far different,
>>>however, and are a big sticking point in current rules.
>>
>>I have to agree with bob for practical reasons. In 1999 i remember the
>>big impact of EGTBs at tournament level of DIEP. In 2001 and 2002 i see
>>hardly any game where EGTBs matter. Let alone the 50 move rule within
>>EGTBs.
>>
>>Chance that this matters is only a 1/1000000 of a chance from the times
>>you need EGTB position. Chance it matters for result is even smaller.
>>
>>Eugene is nowadays 'claiming' copyright onto 'his' egtb probing
>>code. Pretty amazing.
>>
>
>What do you mean "claiming" and "his"?? Eugene doesn't need to "claim" anything.
>He wrote the code, the copyright is his until he says otherwise. Those portions
>that were written by Andrew Kadatch belong to Andrew Kadatch, unless and until
>he says otherwise. You don't need to "claim" copyright on anything you have
>written. The copyright is yours, end of story.
>
>Andrew
>

because the code was first released to be used freely.
copyright was only claimed later.

>
>>We can argue about that. We can argue about a lot of things, but
>>EGTBs are no compare with openingbooks. Especially the big progress
>>in endgame of most programs make them really insignificant.
>>
>>I could play without EGTBs coming tournament, simply because chance
>>evaluatoin goes to a lost EGTB endgame in a drawn position now is
>>like a zillion times smaller than a few years ago.



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