Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 09:34:39 05/21/02
Go up one level in this thread
On May 21, 2002 at 12:20:52, Jorge Pichard wrote: >On May 21, 2002 at 11:07:46, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On May 21, 2002 at 10:13:29, K. Burcham wrote: >> >>The answer is as simple as clear. >> >>They can use programs to analyze games with from other GMs >>and themselves. They can use it to analyze variations from their >>openings preparation with. >> >>But they can't learn from it. > > >What about tactically, can a player less than 2400 learn a few tricks from the >best programs? > >Jorge GMs know tactically more than programs, so you can analyze with them, but not learn from them. The computer doesnt 'show' a new pattern concept to you. So you don't learn from the computer something. You can learn yourself only when analyzing with computers, that's why i say you can't learn FROM the computer. >> >>Whatever commercial propaganda says about chessproducts, they >>are weaker in all respects than a GM, except one: they always >>play a move at the same level. >> >>GM is everywhere better than a program, but doesn't have a >>level that is always above the constant line the program has. >> >>So a GM can't learn anything from the program, except use it to >>analyze with. >> >>> >>>not discussing opening book moves. >>>not discussing egtb's. >>>not discussing a pawn promotion. >>> >>> >>> >>>lets start out saying GM eval is 0, and program eval is 0. >>>lots of time left on both clocks. time is not an issue. >>> >>>the GM makes a move and plays what he sees as a safe move. >>>GM took three minutes to move, but he cannot see the material winning >>>combination for the program. >>>the program takes three more minutes to see material winning move. >>>finally program plays winning move, and GM can see combination. >>> >>>program wins. >>> >>>If GM's cannot learn strategy from programs, if GM's can only learn tactics, >>>then the question is: in the above described game , it would seem that most of >>>the time the GM cannot learn tactics either. if the combination is too deep for >>>the GM to see he loses material, then he cannot see this in another game. >>> >>>Just wondering how a GM can learn from home practice with programs. >>>it would seem that in a postion were the GM could play a losing move and he >>>cannot see the deep combination, but the program can, he could not have won >>>anyway. >>> >>>maybe some will answer that this is not possible. maybe some will say there >>>is no posiiton that the program can see winning material but GM cannot. >>> >>>of course i am not refering to an simple oversight by the GM. i am not refering >>>to a simple human blunder. i am refering to a situation that the GM says he >>>could not see the combination until it was played out. >>> >>>kburcham
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