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Subject: Re: Comments of latest SSDF list 2

Author: Martin Schubert

Date: 08:01:04 05/26/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 26, 2002 at 10:42:34, Torstein Hall wrote:

>On May 26, 2002 at 07:49:26, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On May 26, 2002 at 05:09:33, Torstein Hall wrote:
>>
>>>>Another point: if you took a look at the list where Shredder was leading you
>>>>could see that the leading programs had played their games against totally
>>>>different opponents. So you can't compare the ratings at all.
>>>
>>>If you can not do that then I think you can forget about rating. I'm playing
>>>different players based on rating and of course often we have not played the
>>>same persons. That is one of the reasons we have rating!
>>
>>This is absurd. I assist Martin Schubert that _testing_ could not allow
>>deliberately chosen opponents. We are talking about rankings in test series,
>>_not_ in real life tournaments.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>My suggestion: the top programms should play the same opponents to make it
>>>>possible to compare their results.
>>>>If I remember right it happens quite often that a program is very strong in the
>>>>first rating list it appears in (where it plays against weak opponents). In the
>>>>next rating list where it has to fight the tough ones it falls back in the
>>>>rating list.
>>>
>>>That is what the error margins are for. I think the rating normally stays within
>>>this limits. So for a given program that has got a SSDF rating of say 2600 +/-
>>>43 You can say with 95% (if I remember right) confidence that the program has a
>>>rating within the range 2557 - 2643
>>
>>This is absolutely false. THe error margins have _nothing_ in principal to do
>>with different opponents (on different hardware actually)! The margins are
>>simply a consequence of the statistical maths.
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>Who are you arguing with?
>
>The absurd thins is that I never has sayed what you say is absurd!!!! I was just
>reading what the numbers meen! And that is we can tell a rating with 95%
>confidence inside this margins!
>
>But another thing Martin did say was that we can not use the numbers when we
>have played different players. I disaggree strongly to that, as long as we are
>talking about the same pool of players. If it was not for that, rating numbers
>would be utterly useless. (And maybee they are....... :-D )
>
>Torstein

Not the ratings are useless. Trying to do statistics with ratings is useless
under these circumstances is useless.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Torstein
>>>>
>>>>Regards, Martin



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