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Subject: Re: Comments of latest SSDF list 2

Author: Torstein Hall

Date: 08:04:01 05/26/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 26, 2002 at 11:01:04, Martin Schubert wrote:

>On May 26, 2002 at 10:42:34, Torstein Hall wrote:
>
>>On May 26, 2002 at 07:49:26, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On May 26, 2002 at 05:09:33, Torstein Hall wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Another point: if you took a look at the list where Shredder was leading you
>>>>>could see that the leading programs had played their games against totally
>>>>>different opponents. So you can't compare the ratings at all.
>>>>
>>>>If you can not do that then I think you can forget about rating. I'm playing
>>>>different players based on rating and of course often we have not played the
>>>>same persons. That is one of the reasons we have rating!
>>>
>>>This is absurd. I assist Martin Schubert that _testing_ could not allow
>>>deliberately chosen opponents. We are talking about rankings in test series,
>>>_not_ in real life tournaments.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My suggestion: the top programms should play the same opponents to make it
>>>>>possible to compare their results.
>>>>>If I remember right it happens quite often that a program is very strong in the
>>>>>first rating list it appears in (where it plays against weak opponents). In the
>>>>>next rating list where it has to fight the tough ones it falls back in the
>>>>>rating list.
>>>>
>>>>That is what the error margins are for. I think the rating normally stays within
>>>>this limits. So for a given program that has got a SSDF rating of say 2600 +/-
>>>>43 You can say with 95% (if I remember right) confidence that the program has a
>>>>rating within the range 2557 - 2643
>>>
>>>This is absolutely false. THe error margins have _nothing_ in principal to do
>>>with different opponents (on different hardware actually)! The margins are
>>>simply a consequence of the statistical maths.
>>>
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>Who are you arguing with?
>>
>>The absurd thins is that I never has sayed what you say is absurd!!!! I was just
>>reading what the numbers meen! And that is we can tell a rating with 95%
>>confidence inside this margins!
>>
>>But another thing Martin did say was that we can not use the numbers when we
>>have played different players. I disaggree strongly to that, as long as we are
>>talking about the same pool of players. If it was not for that, rating numbers
>>would be utterly useless. (And maybee they are....... :-D )
>>
>>Torstein
>
>Not the ratings are useless. Trying to do statistics with ratings is useless
>under these circumstances is useless.

What makes the statistics useless? Book learning? And is not that part of the
program? Just as the opening book?

Torstein

>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Torstein
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards, Martin



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