Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 16:20:26 06/01/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 01, 2002 at 18:41:40, Bertil Eklund wrote: >On June 01, 2002 at 15:12:47, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>On June 01, 2002 at 00:04:45, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>>On May 31, 2002 at 22:13:55, Dann Corbit wrote: >>> >>>>Rolf raised an interesting point. To him, the SSDF list is not very interesting >>>>unless you can be sure of the connection to human strength. >>>> >>>>From: >>>>http://home.interact.se/~w100107/welcome.htm >>>> >>>>We see that there are now: >>>>14,378 games in the SSDF database. >>>> >>>>If you could convince GM's to play for $100/game with full concentration, that >>>>would amount to $1,437,800.00 >>>> >>>>I suspect that GM's get 5-10x that amount (depending upon their ability). >>>> >>>>If we could convince them to play for $350.00 per game, it would cost about five >>>>million dollars. $350 is not a lot of money, but with a huge number of games as >>>>a potential, I suspect that a lot of GM's could be talked into it because it >>>>would be a source of steady income. We could have bonus dollars for wins and a >>>>lesser amount for losses to make sure that they were trying really hard. >>>> >>>>Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. I wonder if the chess program >>>>manufacturers might want to cough up some of that cash. >>> >>>I can see the headlines now: >>> >>>"Chessbase pays 10 top GMs $5M dollars, and realizes their programs aren't very >>>good!" >>> >>>Yea, that'll happen. ;) >>> >>> >>> >>>When it comes to a GM vs Computer game, I only take a handful of programs >>>seriously. Chess Tiger, Rebel, Junior, and Crafty. >>> >>>Almost all other programs I have seen, aren't very good against GMs. ESPECIALLY >>>Shredder. >> >>Please, Andrew, you must not be so embittered. If SSDF and the companies and >>programmers _prefer_ the whole bogus about >2600 Elo this bogus can go on! As >>long as bogus sells. Fine by me. But I wanted to put computerchess (commercial >>and amateur the same) on its feet again - where it once was after the war and >>where it belongs. And IMO also a 2350 Elo prog would sell because it would be >>pretty strong enough for 99% of mankind. I think I showed why top GM, if they >>"reacted" like a group and developped real anti-computerchess, the actual progs >>would be happy with 2350. Most people forget about this important thesis. Even >>Dr. Hyatt is still dreaming with his >2500. Perhaps this came through ICC >>experiences with Blitz. My main point is that once the GM had discovered a >>certain formula (this is not talking about cooking special lines; I'm talking >>about chess! and that couldn't be programmed again...) also weaker players could >>adopt it! BTW the actual "learning tool" is more for comp vs comp. The >>competition against human chess hasn't begun yet. Following the famous "Law of >>Andrew" companies will do their best to prevent that the fight will ever ever >>begin. :) >> >>Rolf Tueschen > >If,if,if,if,if........ > >You forgot that the SSDF list was created for TOURNAMENT games when the program >competes as anyone else, not with todays standards with increment time control >and often Internet increment time control (extra time delay) and now when almost >every IM or GM plays all day long with computers. I have talked with a lot of >strong players and most of them plays hours and hours against the best programs >(mostly Fritz). > >Anyway, if, if, if, if, if................and maybee another if..... > >Bertil In a way I can understand why this is boring for you. But look at this: - play at tournaments? Human tournaments? Machine tournaments? - play with computers? Human chess? Anti-Computerchess? Your If, if, if are my differentiations. And I'm doing it for you all day long. If you were more communicative I could explain my points with much more speed. You never met a critic of SSDF who could persuade you that he was in concern about your list? Or this: Do you know the fallacies of SSDF? And still why can't you see a reason for a reformation? Rolf Tueschen
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