Author: Daniel Clausen
Date: 08:16:48 06/10/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 10, 2002 at 10:02:28, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 10, 2002 at 09:54:24, James T. Walker wrote: > >>On June 10, 2002 at 07:50:14, Helmut Conrady wrote: >> >>>On June 10, 2002 at 07:01:03, Russell Reagan wrote: >>> >>>>On June 10, 2002 at 06:41:07, Benny Antonsson wrote: >>>>>Like this.... My stupid program wants to take the rook ! >>>> >>>>Since the position you posted isn't exactly legal since you have like 20 >>>>something black pieces on the board, I tried this position: >>>> >>>>[D]4b1r1/4k3/1rp1p1p1/1pPpPpPp/pP1P1P1P/P2K4/3B4/8 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Apparently Fritz isn't any smarter than your program, because it wants to take >>>>the rook too! Fritz sees this as -4.71 in favor of black after cxb6, and it sees >>>>the position as -8.84 in favor of black after the "next best move" Be3. I always >>>>knew that deep down I was better than my computer! >>>> >>>>Russell >>> >>>Some times ago someone created positions like that to show the "AS" of the >>>programs (artificial stupidness"). :) >>> >>>Helmut >> >>Yes, the problem with this position is that the programs see themselves down >>by about 10 points and taking the rook makes them down by only 5/6 points. >>:-) They would have to see 100 plies to see the draw (50 move rule). >>Jim > >I suspect that the may see after 60 or 70 plies that cxb6 is losing more than >10 pawns so they do not need to search 100 plies forward in order to find the >right move. > >Uri And maybe, just maybe, this is one of the zillions of positions, which should be attacked with chess-knowledge rather than search depth. It may not be the most important draw to recognize but the reason why engines are bad in this position and generally bad when it comes to long-range planning - or just.. planning :) - are the same. When the goal is to create an engine which plays clearly better than any other human (better as in getting more points in a tournament of 100 games for example) than these things are not important. The pesky machines will beat us sooner or later anyway. (please don't start a war now again whether this already happened or not :) But if your goal is to create an engine which "plays chess" as opposed to "collects the most points in a comp tournament", these positions are food for thought. I wanted to create such an engine this evening, but unfortunately I have to go bowling today... Sargon
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