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Subject: Re: Interesting KRP to KP game, for your program

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 17:36:20 06/12/02

Go up one level in this thread


On June 12, 2002 at 19:59:59, Terry McCracken wrote:

>On June 12, 2002 at 16:46:50, Ferdinand S. Mosca wrote:
>
>>While studying king and pawn ending, I have met this position. Both sides have
>>protected passer, Black's rook is passive while white's rook is looking for
>>weakneses. There is however a nice temporary sacrifice by white that is hidden,
>>which brings the game to a won king and pawn game for white. The resulting KP
>>game is not that easy to evaluate for many programs since either side has no
>>passer, white's king is far from the center, white's pawn at a5 appears to be
>>somewhat over extended and black's pawns are more advanced. There is at least 2
>>solution to this setup, first is to bring the rook to b-file which can
>>simultaneously attacks both the black's king position and the backward black's
>>b-pawn. The second solution is a more straight forward human touch, 51. Rxg7
>>that was played by the great GM Kasparov way back in 1998 on a simultaneous
>>exhibition game against Groshenny.
>>From initial test of some free engines only Yace can do 51. Rxg7. I have no
>>Fritz 7 and Hiarcs 8 at the moment, will somebody also post the analysis of this
>>two strong engines?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dinan
>>[D]6R1/1p1r2p1/p3k1Pp/P2pP2K/2pP4/2P5/1P6/8 w - - 0 51
>
>
>The engine that solves this ending the fastest is Shredder 6! Shredder 6.02
>takes 2x longer!
>
>Shredder 6 see Rxg7! in approx. 1 min with 64MB of hash on a SLOW P-III 500!
>
>I'm sorry I didn't save the "Readout" and since Shredder "Learns" it will now
>play it instantly.
>
>It surprises me the Shredder 6 beats Shredder 6.02, but whats more surprising is
>the Shredder Classic ver. of Shredder Paderborn can't see Rxg7 after 3+ min.?
>
>Shredder 6 Classic again solves it within a minute, also 64MB for hash.
>
>Could someone who has Shredder 6 do this test again both using the ChessBase
>ver. and the Classic ver., both for the readout and to verify that Shredder 6.02
>CB ver. is slower than Shredder 6 CB ver.; And that Shredder Paderborn Classic
>is a "dud" on this position!
>
>
>Regards,
> Terry


I tried the CB version again and it seemed the learning feature of the CB ver.
cleared itself? Odd?

This time Shredder 6 took longer with 1'.26" appox. and Shredder 6.02 took
2'.08" to solve for Rxg7!

Shredder 6.02 - McCracken,T
6R1/1p1r2p1/p3k1Pp/P2pP2K/2pP4/2P5/1P6/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 6.02:

1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-2.14)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-1.91)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Kg4
  =  (-0.16)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Kg4
  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Kg4
  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6
  µ  (-0.95)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6
  -+  (-1.91)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6
  -+  (-4.12)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-2.15)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-2.15)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Kg4 b5
  -+  (-1.72)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Kg4 h5+ 2.Kxh5
  ³  (-0.60)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4
  ²  (0.45)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rb8 Rc7
  ±  (0.73)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rb8 Rc7
  ±  (0.73)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rb8 Rc7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rb8 Rc7 5.Re8+ Re7 6.Rb8 Rc7
  ²  (0.66)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rd7 3.Rh8 Re7
  ²  (0.61)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rd7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rh8 Kd7
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  4kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Rh8 Rf7+ 4.gxf7 Kd7 5.f8Q
  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:00  9kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Kd7 4.Rf8 Ke6 5.Kf3 Rc6
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 9/18   00:00:00  16kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Kd7 4.Rf8 Ke6 5.Kg4 Re7 6.Rf7
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:00  27kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Kd7 4.Rf8 Ke6 5.Rg8 Re7
  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:00  43kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rf8 Rc7 5.Rg8 Re7
  ²  (0.70)   Depth: 12/24   00:00:01  68kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rf8 Rc7 5.Rg8 Re7
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 13/25   00:00:01  103kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rf8 Rc7 5.Rg8 Re7
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 14/26   00:00:01  156kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rc7 3.Re8+ Re7 4.Rf8 Rc7 5.Rg8 Re7 6.Ke3
  ²  (0.68)   Depth: 15/27   00:00:02  225kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Kd7
  ²  (0.62)   Depth: 16/28   00:00:05  871kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Re7 3.Rd8 Rd7 4.Ra8 Re7 5.Rg8 Rc7 6.Re8+ Re7 7.Rd8 Rd7 8.Ra8 Re7
9.Rg8 Rc7 10.Re8+ Re7 11.Rd8 Rd7
  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 17/29   00:00:09  1446kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Re7 3.Rf8 Rd7 4.b4 cxb3 5.Kg3 Re7 6.Rf7 Rxf7 7.gxf7 Kxf7 8.e6+
Kxe6 9.Kf3
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 18/30   00:00:13  2023kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Re7 3.Rf8 Rd7 4.Ke3 Re7 5.Ra8 Rd7 6.Kf4
  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 19/31   00:00:23  3727kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Re7 3.Rf8 Rd7 4.Ke3 Re7 5.Ra8 Rd7 6.Kf4
  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 20/32   00:00:38  5628kN
1.Kg4 Rc7 2.Kf4 Re7 3.Rf8 Rd7 4.Re8+ Re7 5.Rg8 Rc7 6.Re8+ Re7 7.Rg8 Rc7 8.Re8+
Re7 9.Rg8
  ²  (0.63)   Depth: 21/33   00:01:14  10455kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6 Re7 3.g7 Kf7 4.Kh7 Re8 5.e6+ Ke7 6.g8Q Rxg8 7.Kxg8 Kxe6 8.Kg7
b5 9.Kg6 b4 10.cxb4 Ke7 11.b5 axb5 12.Kg7 Ke8
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 21/33   00:02:08  17458kN

(McCracken, None 12.06.2002)


Shredder 6 - McCracken,T
6R1/1p1r2p1/p3k1Pp/P2pP2K/2pP4/2P5/1P6/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 6:

1.b4 cxb3
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-2.04)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.b4 cxb3
  -+  (-1.50)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Kg4
  ³  (-0.36)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 6/12   00:00:00
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 7/14   00:00:00  1kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 8/16   00:00:00  3kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 9/18   00:00:00  5kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:00  9kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 11/22   00:00:00  15kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 12/24   00:00:00  24kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.b4 cxb3 3.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 13/25   00:00:00  41kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.b4 cxb3 3.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 14/26   00:00:01  62kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kxh6 Rd7 3.b4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 15/27   00:00:01  95kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 16/28   00:00:01  140kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 17/29   00:00:02  214kN
1.Rxg7 Rxg7 2.Kg4
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 18/30   00:00:03  395kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rd7 3.Rf8 Rc7
  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 18/30   00:00:13  1870kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Kf4 Rd7 3.Rf8 Rc7 4.Rb8 Re7 5.b4 cxb3 6.Rxb7 Rxb7 7.c4 dxc4 8.Kg4
h5+ 9.Kxh5 Rb5
  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 18/30   00:00:16  2240kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rf8 Rd7 3.Rf7 Rxf7 4.b3
  ±  (0.82)   Depth: 19/31   00:00:22  3447kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rf8 Rd7 3.Kf4 Re7 4.Rg8
  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 20/32   00:00:36  5507kN
1.Kg4 Re7 2.Rf8 Rd7 3.Kf4 Re7 4.Rg8
  ±  (0.76)   Depth: 21/33   00:01:12  12756kN
1.Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 21/33   00:01:26  14713kN
1.Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 21/33   00:01:26  14713kN
1.Rxg7
  ±  (0.79)   Depth: 22/34   00:01:26  14713kN

(McCracken, None 12.06.2002)




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