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Subject: Re: How to Cheat in SSDF Competitions

Author: Robert Henry Durrett

Date: 14:17:04 06/13/02

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On June 13, 2002 at 15:26:17, pavel wrote:

>On June 13, 2002 at 14:51:46, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>
>>On June 13, 2002 at 13:32:20, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>
>>>On June 13, 2002 at 12:54:16, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>I interpret this to imply that "everybody does it."
>>>>
>>>>That leaves the question:  How much higher are the SSDF ratings than they would
>>>>have been if commercial versions [Assumed to be not optimized for one specific
>>>>computer] were used?
>>>>
>>>>Not really asking about books.  More interested in knowing how much difference
>>>>optimization for a specific computer would make.
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>Not much. You're talking about a very small gain in speed. The top programs are
>>>already probably optimized out the wazoo, and the small gain that optimizing for
>>>a particular processor will bring translates to even smaller gains in ELO. If
>>>you get a few more NPS, then maybe you'll find a "better" (or at least
>>>different) move maybe once during the game, and that's probably not going to
>>>translate into turning a loss into a draw or turning a draw into a win, IMO.
>>>
>>>Russell
>>
>>Well, I was prompted to think about this topic by the statement:  "Hiarcs 8 was
>>NOT made for slow computer such as an AMD 450 Mhz as the SSDF decided to test it
>>against Nimzo 8." made in another thread.
>>
>>I realize that big programs require big computers.  That is clear.
>>
>>But if all the chess engines were to be tested on the same computers, you would
>>have thought that all of the chess engine developers would have optimized their
>>programs for the computers they were to run on.  This includes "paring down" a
>>big program if it will have to run on a "small" computer.  That's what got me to
>>thinking, anyway.  I couldn't understand how Hiarcs 8 had been zapped.
>>
>>For whatever that's worth.
>>
>>Bob D.
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>
>SSDF tests allmost all  TOP programs in both type of processors 450mhz and
>1200mhz, the idea is to see how much strength a program gets from faster
>processor.
>It has been done AFAIK with fritz7, crafty, junior7, chesstiger14, just to name
>a few and almost most other top programs.
>
>as you can see...
>
>
>  Rating + - Games Won Av.opp
>1 Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2730 33 -31 494 64% 2626
>2 Chess Tiger 14.0 CB 256MB Athlon 1200  2722 33 -32 477 63% 2626
>3 Gambit Tiger 2.0 256MB Athlon 1200  2720 34 -33 441 62% 2635
>4 Deep Fritz 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2714 33 -32 482 63% 2623
>5 Shredder 6.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2713 35 -34 432 64% 2611
>6 Junior 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2693 31 -31 511 57% 2641
>7 Rebel Century 4.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2684 34 -32 470 64% 2585
>8 Shredder 5.32 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2670 31 -30 536 56% 2624
>9 Gandalf 4.32h 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2653 34 -33 430 54% 2625
>10 Deep Fritz 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2652 23 -23 945 61% 2570
>11 Gandalf 5.1 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2646 29 -28 595 57% 2594
>12 Gandalf 5.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2642 49 -50 202 46% 2673
>13 Gambit Tiger 2.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2640 30 -29 592 66% 2521
>14 Fritz 7.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2631 45 -44 250 56% 2592
>14 Junior 7.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2631 27 -26 739 67% 2507
>16 Chess Tiger 14.0 CB 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2630 28 -27 652 62% 2541
>16 Shredder 6.0 UCI 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2630 65 -62 124 57% 2578
>18 Fritz 6.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2623 23 -22 1014 63% 2529
>19 Crafty 18.12/CB 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz  2617 31 -30 519 53% 2595
>20 Shredder 5.32 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2606 31 -30 545 62% 2521
>21 Junior 6.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2588 18 -18 1483 58% 2533
>22 Chess Tiger 12.0 DOS 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2587 22 -22 1021 55% 2551
>23 Shredder 5.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2586 20 -20 1176 56% 2544
>24 Rebel Century 4.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2571 59 -61 138 44% 2612
>25 Shredder 4.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2568 23 -22 986 58% 2508
>26 Nimzo 8.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2554 24 -24 846 53% 2536
>27 Fritz 5.32 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2553 24 -23 890 55% 2514
>28 Nimzo 7.32 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2551 21 -21 1070 54% 2520
>29 Junior 5.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2537 22 -22 996 52% 2520
>30 Gandalf 5.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2532 73 -68 102 60% 2458
>31 Gandalf 4.32f 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2531 28 -28 627 51% 2524
>32 Hiarcs 7.32 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2527 21 -21 1131 47% 2546
>33 Hiarcs 7.01 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2521 30 -31 525 43% 2573
>34 SOS 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2520 19 -19 1307 47% 2539
>35 Gandalf 4.32h 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2518 36 -36 378 53% 2498
>36 Rebel Century 3.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2517 30 -30 546 49% 2523
>37 Chessmaster 8000 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2516 44 -45 251 45% 2549
>38 Goliath Light 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2507 24 -24 857 42% 2565
>39 Crafty 17.07/CB 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2490 23 -23 912 47% 2513
>40 Nimzo 99 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2485 22 -22 996 44% 2528
>41 MChess Pro 8.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2478 25 -26 753 40% 2549
>42 Genius 6.5 128MB K6-2 450 MHz  2474 29 -29 565 48% 2487
>
>http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85924109/ssdf/list.htm
>

A VERY impressive table!!!

>
>"Hiarcs 8 was NOT made for slow computer such as an AMD 450 Mhz as the SSDF
>decided to test it against Nimzo 8."
>
>so the statement is moot, when you know why they did, what they did.
>
>Also statements like Hiarcs 8 is better in long(er) time control than relatively
>short time control doesnt make sense to me.
>
>I dont think SSDF is the last thing on earth for all programmers.
>For instance Crafty & Junior (authors) are more interested in human competitions
>than in computer competitions. And its not the same.
>
>cheers,
>pavs

I see no reason, then, why a chess engine programmer could not re-optimize his
program for each new competition, assumming conditions changed enough to make a
difference.  [and, incidentally, optimize book, GUI maybe, etc.]

If "everybody does it," then why not?  Keeps a level playing field.

Bob D.



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