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Subject: Re: Why Hiarcs 8 Does Poorly on Slow Computers?

Author: John Reynolds

Date: 09:00:49 06/15/02

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On June 15, 2002 at 11:36:29, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On June 15, 2002 at 00:20:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 13, 2002 at 23:58:46, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On June 13, 2002 at 09:13:43, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 13, 2002 at 06:00:13, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hiarcs 8 was NOT made for slow computer such as an AMD 450 Mhz as the SSDF
>>>>>decided to test it against Nimzo 8.
>>>>
>>>>What, exactly, causes this problem?
>>>>
>>>>Do other chess engines have this same problem too?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The problem is that the problem described above does not exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>Here we disagree significantly.
>>
>>One trivial case...  Take a program that uses null-move R=2 or 3, and run
>>it on a very slow machine.  Then on a very fast machine.  The slow machine
>>will make significant blunders because the R=2 or R=3 depth reduction will
>>be a killer.  But as the depth increases, the tactical oversights go away
>>and the null-move program benefits more from the extra speed than what you
>>might see from a non-null-move program.
>>
>>I watched this happen personally.  I almost gave up on R=2 for that very
>>reason, until suddenly the P6/200 came along and bumped the depth up enough
>>so that suddenly the R=2 or R=3 didn't cause tactical blunders nearly as
>>often.
>>
>>That is but _one_ example.  Other obvious cases come to mind.  At a specific
>>depth, you need some tactical evaluation to avoid blunders.  IE if you can't
>>search 2 plies, you need to evaluate forks statically.  But as the depth
>>increases, suddenly the search handles this and doing it in the eval simply
>>slows the program down.  But not doing it in the eval will kill it on slow
>>hardware.
>>
>>The list goes on and on...
>
>
>
>I agree with you on the principle (some changes are needed for a program to
>perform not too badly at shallow search depths), but not on the examples you
>give.
>
>I think you are basing your remark about null move on impressions. It is true
>that you can notice dramatic tactical blunders because of it, but you do not
>take into account the number of games where it helped more than it hurt.
>
>You would need to play long matches with some statical reliability to be sure
>(and I have done it).
>
>Also, null move as it is done in Crafty has some big weaknesses because of your
>QSearch. Your philosophy is that the QSearch should be as fast and simple as
>possible, and it amplifies the null move weaknesses.
>
>About the "fork" example: I would not treat it by evaluation. I have tried and
>it does not work. The solution of this problem must be found in search or
>QSearch improvements.
>
>I know it very well because of all the programmers out there I must be the only
>one to have an up to date program targeted to run on both very slow computers
>and very fast ones (Chess Tiger and Chess Tiger for Palm share exactly the same
>engine code).
>
>
>
>    Christophe



 Watch it Chris! you may be revealing Secrets here.



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