Author: Mark Young
Date: 05:33:42 08/02/98
Go up one level in this thread
On August 02, 1998 at 03:33:52, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On August 01, 1998 at 08:34:15, blass uri wrote: >>The reason I believe Fritz5 has better general position understanding >>than Junior4.6 is that Fritz5 had better results when mark young gave it more >>time. > >Junior plays very okish games. This remembers me on how rebel plays. Many moves >Junior or Rebel play, I would have played too. The moves they play look NORMAL. >Human like. They play very good. It can be that Fritz kills Junior in longer >time controls. I am sure fritz-tree is more effective than junior's tree is. >Juniors biggest problem is in my opinion the horizont thing. >It generates very likely horizont ideas into its main-lines. When analyzing with >junior on a position, you often see that it moves a problem over the horizont by >creating an interesting , very artistique bluff mainline, that does work within >the range of the search, but does not work out of it. >I guess the reaso for this is the way junior searcher, in opposite to the way >fritz searches. Fritz outsearches junior at longer time controls. Yes. >But i like the way junior plays. And I know other programmers have found the >same. Junior plays homogen, as if the whole game is ONE BODY, not this up and >down chess, it plays elegant. > I agree. Where does Fritz get the nerve to out search the other programs, while the other computers impress me with their very pretty and elegant play? I mean the other top programs like Chess system Tal are much better programs. I can tell by the way they play also. All Fritz does is move aimlessly around the board. It does not have a clue. And I don’t care if grandmaster’s say you must first have a positional advantage, then only then do you look for a combination, because then it must exist. This is total bunk. I know that if I played Garry Kasparov, and I just made random moves, I know I could luck out and beat Kasparov. This is all that Fritz does. I mean Fritz plays ugly chess. I don’t know how many games I have seen fritz play where it starts moving aimlessly round the board, as Fritz is prone to do, while the other program has built up this very pretty and elegant position. Then Fritz out of shear stupidity starts losing pawn or two. I mean it just gives the other program a pawn for no reason! And out of shear luck Fritz starts winning the game. I can’t count how many times I have seen fritz do this. This is not how chess is played, not if you want to impress me. I think we should repeat again what Moritz told us, For all those god dame bean counter out there. Rebel 10 playing on a P 90 kicked the shit out of Fritz 5 playing on a P II 400 by the score of 10-0 in favor of Rebel 10. Take that you god dame bean counters, and stick it up your pipe and smoke it. Keep up the good fight. Best Regards Evil-Mark. >>I am not sure about Junior5 and I should do another test >>I think to let Junior5 play against fritz5 all the positions after the 10th move >>of black in the match rebel-anand and to see what is the result. > >I guess you should try to play fritz from the 10th moves, against junior, but >also against Hiarcs. hiarcs would not allow fritz to play POSITIONAL ! >maybe fritz outsearches hiarcs, but fritz will not impress hiarcs with >positional stuff... > >Yes, the anand matches , especially the 2 tournament games could be interesting >to see played by two computers. Why not use the 2 40/120 games and replay them >with computers ?! > >>This will give an indication which program is better in general position >>understanding. If Junior's result improves with time than Junior has better >>positional understanding. >>I hope Junior will win this match > >I like that you have not seen my statements as a personal attack !! > >I see your posts very constructive. I hope we can discuss things later... > >Try the anand-match games instead of the nunn-stuff. > >>Uri >>understanding > >Thorsten >apologizing for his overreaction !
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