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Subject: Re: sac position

Author: Robert Henry Durrett

Date: 07:09:51 06/17/02

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On June 17, 2002 at 05:13:01, stuart taylor wrote:

>On June 16, 2002 at 22:25:50, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>
>>On June 16, 2002 at 20:57:01, stuart taylor wrote:
>>
>>>I believe a question as to whether to play N:g5 or Bg3 in this kind of position
>>>is one of the most difficult desisions in a serious human game in which the
>>>results of the game is critical.
>>>Only someone of atleast master level can make a confident decision, after some
>>>analysis in a tournament game. But the idea? I think ANYONE (of 1800 elo) would
>>>think of. Is that not so?
>>>S.Taylor
>>
>>I am/was USCF 1864 human amateur tournament chessplayer and the sac on g5 was
>>the very first thing I looked at.  I suspect that any experienced human amateur
>>tournament player would notice that possibility right away.  I also immediately
>>noticed Qe7 and "suspected" that Black could defend the position. The sac looked
>>too risky.  Almost no analysis.  Sometimes amateurs make their decision based on
>>little more than that, but mostly on the basis of feelings and emotions.
>>"Better to be safe than sorry" or "I am in the mood to attack" feelings may
>>decide.
>>
>>The problem with chess amateurs like myself is that they, for whatever reason,
>>either cannot or DO NOT perform the analyses properly and in sufficient depth to
>>reach a definitive answer.  Furthermore, many positions an amateur faces in
>>tournament games are either too unfamiliar or too difficult for the amateur to
>>reach a clear "best" move.  In other words, for the human amateur, it may be
>>essentially impossible to come up with a definitive answer in such situations.
>>There is a lot of "take your best shot and hope for the best" in human amateur
>>chess.  I suspect these failings are not uncommon among human masters as well.
>>
>>But chess engines seem to be quite different from human amateur chessplayers.
>>It seems doubtful that most of the [emotional, etc.] difficulties humans face
>>are also a problem for chess engines.
>>
>>QUESTION:  What happens in chess engines when there are two equally seemingly
>>worthy moves available [in this case, one sacrificial and attacking and another
>>relatively "safe" move]?  Are all engines the same in the way they handle this
>>kind of situation?  Perhaps engines never "realize" that two choices are equally
>>worthy at all.  Engines don't think like humans and certainly don't "get
>>excited."
>>
>>Also, there currently does not seem to be any way to enter tournament
>>considerations into the computer.  [Ex:  "Must win to get prize money" versus
>>"Draw is good enough to take first prize," or "I'm really tired and want to
>>quit."]
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>Sorry, even well below 1800 elo, And I too would always think of N:g5 as a first
>thing. IF it would work that would be better than rretreating.
>Thoughts are often that even if it doesn't work, you atleast get 2 pawns and
>probably atleast the value of another in attacking possibilities if not more.
>But that attitude might not only be not accurate, but can even backfire
>sometimes!

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Many people really enjoy computer chess, in it's many forms.  But playing
amateur human-human chess has it's rewards too.  The element of risk is
exciting.  I pity all those chess computers!  They cannot "enjoy" their wins.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

>But at first glance, in fact, N:g5 is looked at, and at second glance, I'd say
>that there seems no followup. But It's after that, that the thought proccess has
>to really start, since I've seen that many combinations and/or attacking play
>from master/GM games are a longer proccess, you just have to look a bit, or a
>lot further.
>If however whites Rook/castle was on e1, that would almost make a considerable
>difference, at quick thinking times. So like this, it is a critical thing which
>needs exact calculation to see if there a win, or atleast some small gain.
>I'm only speaking my feelings from experience which this position reminds me
>about. Sorry to bore anyone!
>S.Taylor



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