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Subject: Re: 64 bits

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:03:56 06/21/02

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On June 20, 2002 at 21:48:10, Keith Evans wrote:

>On June 20, 2002 at 20:56:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 20, 2002 at 14:07:50, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On June 20, 2002 at 13:03:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>It could certainly be done.  However, I don't see what it would prove.
>>>>Other than that 64 bit operations are more efficient when done in one
>>>>"chunk" than in two.  That seems intuitive anyway.  It would also present
>>>>a few problems, with the FirstOne() and LastOne() PopCnt() functions that
>>>>use assembly on the PC but not on the 64 bit machines (yet).
>>>
>>>How would this be a problem? Why are you talking about PCs? The experiment is to
>>>force a 64-bit chip to use 32-bit ints for bitboards. The PC is not a 64-bit
>>>platform (yet) so we're OBVIOUSLY not talking about it.
>>>
>>>As for not seeing what the experiment would prove, I assume you're joking.
>>>
>>>-Tom
>>
>>
>>Not joking.  When you have multiple degrees of freedom, things change and it
>>is not easy to attribute results to a specific change.  Does the compiler
>>or cpu do better with a larger number of 32 bit instructions?  Or better with
>>a smaller number of 64 bit operations?  Do the 32 bit operations cause
>>unnecessary pipeline stalls due to things like the carry bit and whatever,
>>or do they not?  Does the compiler produce as elegant a code for 32 and 64 or
>>does it do better on one or the other?  When the 64 bit version runs 2x faster
>>than the 32 bit version is it because of the 64 bit advantage or because of a
>>bad 32 bit executable from the compiler?  When the 64 bit runs only 5% faster
>>than the 32 bit version, same question?
>
>It sounds a little like you're being disingenuous. If you did the experiment and
>got a result like "the 64 bit runs only 5% faster than the 32 bit version" then
>would you ignore it because you're not sure why? And still tout the performance
>advantages of bitboards for 64-bit machines?
>
>Are you interested in validating the idea that bitboards are a win on 64-bit
>machines? We're just trying to propose an experiment which although imperfect
>would be more reliable than mere intuition. Any ideas?
>
>-Keith


So I don't trust the experiment, but if it produces results favorable to me
I would tout 64 bit programs as the cat's meow?  But if it produces results
unfavorable to me I would say "the test is no good"??

Sorry, that isn't _me_.  The test is flawed from the _beginning_.  And no matter
what result it shows, it won't mean a thing.  Therefore, what would be the point
unless you have a lot of time to burn and nothing to prove???



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