Author: José Carlos
Date: 23:47:39 06/24/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 24, 2002 at 18:37:26, Matthew White wrote: >On June 24, 2002 at 13:35:12, José Carlos wrote: > >>On June 24, 2002 at 13:02:13, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >> >>>On June 24, 2002 at 12:43:47, José Carlos wrote: >>> >>>>On June 24, 2002 at 12:27:40, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 24, 2002 at 12:03:09, José Carlos wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 24, 2002 at 08:38:51, Frank Quisinsky wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Bob, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>you made really a good work for amateurchess and persons which have questions. >>>>>>>And this now hundrets of years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I hope you have a long time (future) interest on computer chess, I mean I will >>>>>>>also in the next year write a chess program and need your help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>A good example for professionals. >>>>>>>But the most have only interest to make mony and not to help other programmers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That`s computer chess, unfortunately! >>>>>> >>>>>> That's life, not only computer chess. Everyone wants to make money from his >>>>>>job. Don't you make any money at all from your job? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> José C. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Best >>>>>>>Frank >>>>> >>>>>Hi José, >>>> >>>> Hi Frank, >>>> >>>>>I have no interest to make money with computer chess. >>>>>With computer chess :-) >>>>> >>>>>It's my hobby! >>>> >>>> Exactly. That's my point. People depend on their proffessional success in >>>>order to get money for a living. My answer was pointed to your sentence "A good >>>>example for professionals. But the most have only interest to make mony and not >>>>to help other programmers." >>>> Now think of your own job -I don't know what it is, but hopefully you do ;) -. >>>>You want to be good in your job for not being fired. If you can do something >>>>others can't, you'll be more valuable to your company; they'll pay you more and >>>>make your life easier. If you teach all your secrets to the others so that they >>>>can do it as well as you, but they also can do other things you can't, you'll >>>>probably be worthless to your company... and fired. >>>> This is a competitive world. >>>> Computer chess is a very hard area for being a proffessional, harder than most >>>>other areas. Computer chess has many talented amateur programmers kicking >>>>proffesionals, sharing ideas and source code, etc. >>>> Just imagine someone would create cars and give them for free, and then a lot >>>>of people get interest in free-cars and start working together to create cars as >>>>good as the "commercial". Car companies would lose a lot of income -> a lot of >>>>people would lose their jobs. Then, just then, imagine someone complaining about >>>>"proffessional" car-builders not sharing knowledge... >>>> I also like to see the profis here in CCC, but I understand they keep their >>>>secrets well hidden... They need money to eat! >>>> >>>> José C. >>> >>>Hi José, >>> >>>good comments! >>>I can not write my points in a perfect English. >>>But I must not write my points because your opinion is good for me as I can say >>>"I agreed to 95%" :-) >>> >>>The important point for me is that we can find in chess fora much fans of >>>commercial programs. So for this group of people it's better if commercial >>>programmers more write about chess and other interesting topics (not only about >>>his program). Also helps for amateur chess programmers are important ... I mean >>>a commercial programmer must not give all secrets but can help in the most of >>>the questions. >>> >>>And here I must say, I like the work from John Merlino (as an example). >>> >>>I don't know that a lot of people losed here job with a little bit more >>>cooperations. I mean we produce new jobs if professionals with amateurs more >>>working (teams are important). We have x possibilitys to make a little bit. >>> >>>Example (I wrote this today in German fora): >>> >>>I don't like the bad organization from ICCA. >>>A very bad work for me in the latest years. >>> >>>Now: >>>User give 50 Euro in a year for a memberchip. >>>If 500 persons give 50 Euro we have 25.000 Euro for more possitiblys to organize >>>a user friendly WM. >>> >>>We can give programmers money for visit the tourneys or can give prizes. We can >>>create a webpage with much good information about the WM with an online magazine >>>(like the work from John with his News Letter) and can added downloads of chess >>>programs for members of this page. We can sent two persons to the WM tournaments >>>for give live comments in chess fora etc.. >>> >>>We can play a qualify tournament on chess server for the WM. >>> >>>At the moment we have a problem with computer chess. Bad organizations ... and >>>in this case we not the chances to try that more persons have interest on >>>computer chess. >>> >>>Sorry for my English, I hope you understand my points. >>> >>>Best >>>Frank >> >> Don't apologize, my english is also bad. ;) >> I think I see your point. If programmers are closer to the customers, more and >>more people can get interested in computer chess. Well, this might be true, >>though I admit I don't know. >> For example, there's a wide market for computer chess in proffessional chess >>players. Those don't care at all about the programmers; they just want a >>powerful tool to train with. >> There's also the user who just wants to play some games and learn from the >>computer. They also don't care about the programmers. They probably appreciate >>someone like John Merlino who kindly answers their questions about how to do >>this or that, but Chessmaster users dont "need" Johan de Konning at all (except, >>of course, for writting the engine). >> Finally there's CCC (and similar forums). I like when Ed or Amir show up and >>coment on something, yes, though it's not a necessary condition for me to buy a >>program. >> In summary, it seems that only a small part of potential customers is >>interested in having the programmers comment in forums. >> So I'm afraid I fail to understand your point :( >> >> José C. >It seems to me that Frank's point (correct me if I am wrong) is that he is glad >some professional programmers take the time to help the amateur programmers >understand difficult concepts and improve their own engines, not so much having >contact with final end users. As more algorithmic/heuristic improvements filter >down into "mainstream" chess programming, chess programming as a whole improves, >and we amateurs may even have improvements that the pros haven't thought of ;). > >Matt I already answered that. There's no point in helping your opponent to checkmate you! ;) José C.
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