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Subject: Re: Huge Caches Mean Faster Chess Engines?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:17:09 06/25/02

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On June 25, 2002 at 06:07:57, Vincent Lejeune wrote:

>On June 24, 2002 at 22:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 24, 2002 at 13:31:20, Bo Persson wrote:
>>
>>>On June 24, 2002 at 10:30:26, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>This addresses half the problem.  What if the microprocessor wishes to WRITE
>>>>something.  Why not write it directly to a huge cache and bypass RAM entirely?
>>>
>>>It does, sort of.
>>>
>>>The processor writes to the cache, which will update the RAM *eventually*. The
>>>processor doesn't have to wait for the update, so if you're lucky you will not
>>>see the delay.
>>>
>>>Current processors even have write-buffers queueing data going to the cache...
>>
>>Most use "write back" or "copy back" which means that memory is not updated
>>until the modified cache line gets replaced by something else.  At that point,
>>the modified (dirty) line is first flushed back to memory before it is replaced
>>by something new.  With luck, this turns a bunch of memory write operations into
>>a bunch of cache writes with one memory write later on...
>>
>>And then there is "victim cache" to hold stuff that was "displaced" for a bit
>>(from cache) in case it is needed again soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>If you had extremely large caches, couldn't RAM be dispensed with entirely?
>>>
>>>Or, if you had fast enough RAM, caches could be dispensed of. :-)
>>
>>
>>Micron used to do this.  They used to have the fastest 386/486 boxes running.
>>Their entire memory was SRAM rather than DRAM with an SRAM cache.  Made them
>>very fast.  And much more expensive.  Of course, 1 gig of SRAM would be very
>>big compared to 1 gig of DRAM.
>
>The improvement of "all Sdram" souldn't be very big, if I remember correctly ,
>at  this very old time (386/486) the figure was : 80% of the access memory were
>in the cache with 16 KB and 95% for 256 KB cache !
>The typical amount of ram was between 4 MB and 16 MB
>

It depends.  Some folks used those machines for number-crunching, even at those
clock rates.  With large arrays, cache was blown out instantly as the programs
generally iterated over the entire array.  The SRAM memory could keep up better,
at a price ($).

We had one math person here that bought one and liked the results, if not the
price.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>That was actually the case for micros until about 15 years ago, when caches were
>>>introduced alongside the "extremely" fast 486.
>>>
>>>A couple of years before that, 120 ns RAM matched an 8 MHz 286 processor pretty
>>>well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.



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