Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:10:05 06/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 24, 2002 at 19:09:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On June 23, 2002 at 02:06:25, Uri Blass wrote: > >i do not know in which world you live if you guess you >can score points with black after 1.e4,f5. This is complete >nonsense of course. Also the idea you would get a draw with 1.d3,e5 with >white is complete nonsense of course. Instead of advantage you have >disadvadvantage soon. with 1.e4,f5 you score 0% of course with black. > I don't agree here. I will be happy to search thru my game archive to find games Crafty has won vs other computers with the Latvian black side. It isn't a horrible opening to play against a materialistic computer. The best lines for white give the pawn back at the right time. Computers generally won't. Would it win more than it loses with that opening? Unknown. But it definitely would not lose every game. We could run a 10 game match on ICC to see, as my book learning would provide the variety within the various Latvian lines... >>On June 22, 2002 at 20:35:22, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On June 22, 2002 at 15:13:28, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On June 22, 2002 at 14:42:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 22, 2002 at 14:20:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 22, 2002 at 13:25:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 21, 2002 at 15:18:33, Jeroen Noomen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 21, 2002 at 12:45:30, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The fact that some amatateurs agree does not change the fact that commercial >>>>>>>>>engines can benefit from using one author in different teams i.e. the book >>>>>>>>>author. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The commercial programs all have different opening experts. I don't think they >>>>>>>>will or want to use another opening book. Don't forget that trusting the use of >>>>>>>>another book involves a lot of testing. Even if I *could* use f.e. the ChessBase >>>>>>>>books, I would never do it. Rely on your own book, which is thoroughly tested, >>>>>>>>that is the only way. I believe that changing the book in a tournament can only >>>>>>> >>>>>>>this is complete nonsense Jeroen, >>>>>>>because the alternative for most amateurs is to have an automatic generated >>>>>>>book which is poor tested and even worse designed. >>>>>> >>>>>>No >>>>>> >>>>>>It is better for them to use a small book that is generated manually. >>>>> >>>>>says the layman. >>>>> >>>>>this would mean you lose directly. a very small manual book doesn't work >>>>>against books like from Noomen or Kure. it's like 0.5 out of 20 you >>>>>score with it. >>>> >>>>You may be right about my program because the engine is weak(My estimate is that >>>>it is 50 or 100 elo better than Gerbil) and I believe that it is not so weak to >>>>get 0 out of 20 so it can get 0.5 out of 20 but I expect that if you use Crafty >>>>or Yace with a small book only to get the opponent out of book you are going to >>>>get clearly more than 0.5 out of 20 against Noomen's book. >>> >>>but this is not what you want to achieve. Suppose you have good >>>engine like Yace. Your goal is to do well then. that means 60% score. >>>5.5 out of 9 would be good for yace in world champs. >>> >>>If you have something that scores in the range of 0.0 out of 9 >>>until 4 out of 9, then it is a clear case of major dissappointment. >>> >>>To get above that 4 is real hard with a simple book. >>> >>>You see you want to beat your close competitors. I am sure Yace >>>and brutus are playing at the same level if both have a 1.73Ghz K7, >>>yace perhaps even better because it is efficient software, especially >>>when a new version is optimized for K7. >>> >>>But reality is that brutus has a Kure book. How do you plan to kick that >>>with simple openings, knowing brutus is tested to do well with the Kure >>>book. Hard work from Alex and hard work from Chrilly in the limited time >>>they had to tune it. >>> >>>So beating a program like Warp or Sharky with 1.d3 with yace, that's not >>>the interesting thing. You want to do well against the programs that >>>are close to your strength, slightly better or slightly below. >>> >>>If you score 10% scores against these guys, then reality is far off. >> >>The point is that you are going to score 50% against the cure book with lines >>like d3 unless your engine has problems and the opponent can find better moves >>by search. >> >>My experience in games is that my program have chances against stronger engines >>even with lines like 1.e4 f5 or 1.e4 b5. >> >>I did not try tournament time control and things may be different at slower time >>control but these lines are not needed and I believe that you may have chances >>to win against stronger engines at tournament time control with lines like 1.e4 >>a6(the same is for humans and you can ask karpov). >> >>I guess that if you try a tournament between the top programs with white and the >>top programs with black when you start the games with 1.e4 a6 you may find cases >>when white is going to lose and I doubt if the commercial have something special >>against 1.e4 a6. >> >> >>Uri
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