Author: Peter Berger
Date: 10:44:22 06/28/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 28, 2002 at 13:30:34, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>On June 27, 2002 at 13:36:19, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On June 27, 2002 at 04:04:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Several positions in WM test the solutions given aren't the
>>>objective best moves.
>>>
>>>For example i get impression that at position 16:
>>>
>>>
>>>r1k4r/1b1q1pp1/p6p/3n4/1B3Pn1/1P1B4/P1PQ3P/2KRR3 w - - bm Ba5; id "CSS WM-Test
>>>16) Lb4-a5 (K)";
>>>
>>>Undoubtfully Ba5 is a good move, but completely material
>>>winning is c2-c4 here. You get directly a rook at the 7th rank,
>>>swallow f7 + g7, and black is completely immobilized the rest of
>>>the game. Soon also Rd1-e1-e7 happens and it's a mate in XXX soon
>>>then.
>>>
>>>I can imagine why a human plays Ba5 here and doesn't take a risk (note
>>>the chessprograms want this all initially too), but let's look objective
>>>to the position. Not finding c4 soon means a program is a tactical joke.
>>>
>>>As a human i wouldn't find c4 so soon either. I would go for Ba5, because
>>>i know how much i suck in tactics.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Vincent
>>
>>This is what I get with Crafty 17.13:
>>
>>14-> 28:00 0.00 1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4.
>> Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6
>> 15 36:53 0.00 1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4.
>> Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6
>> 15 125:37 0.20 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
>> Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6
>> 7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3
>> 15-> 125:37 0.20 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
>> Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6
>> 7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3
>>
>>Crafty 17.13 gets 1. c4 very fast with negative score and then drawscore soon.
>>It needs a long time to find 1. Ba5 with a slight positive score. I expect it to
>>fail-high on Ba5 in ply 16.
>>
>>If 1.c4 is completely material winning it must be very deep and tough for
>>computers. If you let Diep think for a long time, will it keep with 1. c4 or
>>will it change its mind to 1. Ba5 eventually ?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Peter
>
>DIEP wasn't on pc beginners hardware when running the position.
Patience helps the miserable hardware ;-). Crafty 17.13 again:
16-> 234:57 0.33 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 Qxd1+
7. Kxd1 fxg6 8. f5 gxf5 9. Qxf5+ Kd8
10. Qh5 Ke7 11. Qxh6
17 536:51 ++ 1. Ba5!!
ok.
17 1592:15 1/40? 1. Ba5
Could you post some of the deep lines you got with Diep so that we can compair
with Roy's lines and try to understand what Diep is thinking here on superior
hardware and the truth about this position?
Regards,
Peter
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