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Subject: Re: WM test bugs

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 10:51:55 06/28/02

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On June 28, 2002 at 13:44:22, Peter Berger wrote:

>On June 28, 2002 at 13:30:34, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On June 27, 2002 at 13:36:19, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
>>>On June 27, 2002 at 04:04:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>Several positions in WM test the solutions given aren't the
>>>>objective best moves.
>>>>
>>>>For example i get impression that at position 16:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>r1k4r/1b1q1pp1/p6p/3n4/1B3Pn1/1P1B4/P1PQ3P/2KRR3 w - - bm Ba5; id "CSS WM-Test
>>>>16) Lb4-a5 (K)";
>>>>
>>>>Undoubtfully Ba5 is a good move, but completely material
>>>>winning is c2-c4 here. You get directly a rook at the 7th rank,
>>>>swallow f7 + g7, and black is completely immobilized the rest of
>>>>the game. Soon also Rd1-e1-e7 happens and it's a mate in XXX soon
>>>>then.
>>>>
>>>>I can imagine why a human plays Ba5 here and doesn't take a risk (note
>>>>the chessprograms want this all initially too), but let's look objective
>>>>to the position. Not finding c4 soon means a program is a tactical joke.
>>>>
>>>>As a human i wouldn't find c4 so soon either. I would go for Ba5, because
>>>>i know how much i suck in tactics.
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Vincent
>>>
>>>This is what I get with Crafty 17.13:
>>>
>>>14->  28:00   0.00   1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4.
>>>                                    Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6
>>>               15    36:53   0.00   1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4.
>>>                                    Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6
>>>               15   125:37   0.20   1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
>>>                                    Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6
>>>                                    7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3
>>>               15-> 125:37   0.20   1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
>>>                                    Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6
>>>                                    7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3
>>>
>>>Crafty 17.13 gets 1. c4 very fast with negative score and then drawscore soon.
>>>It needs a long time to find 1. Ba5 with a slight positive score. I expect it to
>>>fail-high on Ba5 in ply 16.
>>>
>>>If 1.c4 is completely material winning it must be very deep and tough for
>>>computers. If you let Diep think for a long time, will it keep with 1. c4 or
>>>will it change its mind to 1. Ba5 eventually ?
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Peter
>>
>>DIEP wasn't on pc beginners hardware when running the position.
>
>Patience helps the miserable hardware ;-). Crafty 17.13 again:
>
>16-> 234:57   0.33   1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4.
>                                    Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 Qxd1+
>                                    7. Kxd1 fxg6 8. f5 gxf5 9. Qxf5+ Kd8
>                                    10. Qh5 Ke7 11. Qxh6
>               17   536:51     ++   1. Ba5!!
>ok.
>17   1592:15   1/40?  1. Ba5
>
>Could you post some of the deep lines you got with Diep so that we can compair
>with Roy's lines and try to understand what Diep is thinking here on superior
>hardware and the truth about this position?
>
>Regards,
>Peter

Your score is only 0.33 dude. Mine was +2.0 for c4.

You miss a bunch of pawns. Also crafty at 17 ply sees tactical less than
DIEP at 12 ply.

Best regards,
vincent



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