Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 10:51:55 06/28/02
Go up one level in this thread
On June 28, 2002 at 13:44:22, Peter Berger wrote: >On June 28, 2002 at 13:30:34, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On June 27, 2002 at 13:36:19, Peter Berger wrote: >> >>>On June 27, 2002 at 04:04:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>Several positions in WM test the solutions given aren't the >>>>objective best moves. >>>> >>>>For example i get impression that at position 16: >>>> >>>> >>>>r1k4r/1b1q1pp1/p6p/3n4/1B3Pn1/1P1B4/P1PQ3P/2KRR3 w - - bm Ba5; id "CSS WM-Test >>>>16) Lb4-a5 (K)"; >>>> >>>>Undoubtfully Ba5 is a good move, but completely material >>>>winning is c2-c4 here. You get directly a rook at the 7th rank, >>>>swallow f7 + g7, and black is completely immobilized the rest of >>>>the game. Soon also Rd1-e1-e7 happens and it's a mate in XXX soon >>>>then. >>>> >>>>I can imagine why a human plays Ba5 here and doesn't take a risk (note >>>>the chessprograms want this all initially too), but let's look objective >>>>to the position. Not finding c4 soon means a program is a tactical joke. >>>> >>>>As a human i wouldn't find c4 so soon either. I would go for Ba5, because >>>>i know how much i suck in tactics. >>>> >>>>Best regards, >>>>Vincent >>> >>>This is what I get with Crafty 17.13: >>> >>>14-> 28:00 0.00 1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4. >>> Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6 >>> 15 36:53 0.00 1. c4 Nxb4 2. Qxb4 Nf6 3. Re7 Qc6 4. >>> Bf5+ Kb8 5. Rd6 Qh1+ 6. Rd1 Qc6 >>> 15 125:37 0.20 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4. >>> Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6 >>> 7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3 >>> 15-> 125:37 0.20 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4. >>> Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 fxg6 >>> 7. Rxd7 Kxd7 8. Qd4+ Kc8 9. Kd2 Bf3 >>> >>>Crafty 17.13 gets 1. c4 very fast with negative score and then drawscore soon. >>>It needs a long time to find 1. Ba5 with a slight positive score. I expect it to >>>fail-high on Ba5 in ply 16. >>> >>>If 1.c4 is completely material winning it must be very deep and tough for >>>computers. If you let Diep think for a long time, will it keep with 1. c4 or >>>will it change its mind to 1. Ba5 eventually ? >>> >>>Regards, >>>Peter >> >>DIEP wasn't on pc beginners hardware when running the position. > >Patience helps the miserable hardware ;-). Crafty 17.13 again: > >16-> 234:57 0.33 1. Ba5 Ngf6 2. c4 Nc7 3. Qb4 Re8 4. > Rxe8+ Nfxe8 5. Qc5 g6 6. Bxg6 Qxd1+ > 7. Kxd1 fxg6 8. f5 gxf5 9. Qxf5+ Kd8 > 10. Qh5 Ke7 11. Qxh6 > 17 536:51 ++ 1. Ba5!! >ok. >17 1592:15 1/40? 1. Ba5 > >Could you post some of the deep lines you got with Diep so that we can compair >with Roy's lines and try to understand what Diep is thinking here on superior >hardware and the truth about this position? > >Regards, >Peter Your score is only 0.33 dude. Mine was +2.0 for c4. You miss a bunch of pawns. Also crafty at 17 ply sees tactical less than DIEP at 12 ply. Best regards, vincent
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