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Subject: Re: Lets be clear about Frank "complain"

Author: Robin Smith

Date: 10:24:07 06/29/02

Go up one level in this thread


On June 28, 2002 at 21:01:43, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On June 28, 2002 at 18:49:37, Robin Smith wrote:
>
>>On June 28, 2002 at 13:57:11, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>Man, it is not getting through to you, is it?
>>>Look here, just below:
>>>
>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?237855
>>>
>>>and here:
>>>http://spam.abuse.net/overview/whatisspam.shtml
>>>
>>>it is spam, get it?
>>
>>The ICD e-mail does not fit the description of spam given on the site you
>>mention above!  Why do you provide a site link that undermines your contention
>>that the ICD e-mail was spam?  Did you even read it?
>
>Yes I did, and it does fit.
>
>>Here are some quotes from the site you mention:
>>"Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message"
>>
>>ICD did not "flood the Internet", it was a message about computer chess,
>>targeted exclusively towards computer chess enthusiasts.  And it was sent to a
>>privately developed mailing list of SOME of those entusiasts.  So the ICD e-mail
>>fails the "flood the internet" criteria for being spam.
>
>this is flooding, you don't have to send a billion to be flooding.
>many identical copies indicates the mail was not targeted for individual persons
>but had the character of spam.
>
>
>>"Most spam is commercial advertising, often for dubious products, get-rich-quick
>>schemes, or quasi-legal services."
>>
>>While the ICD message was commercial advertising, it matches NONE of the other
>>mentioned criteria such as dubious products, etc.  In fact the commercial nature
>>of the e-mail was the ONLY aspect that fits any parts of the description of
>>spam.
>
>Dubious is free to interpretation, any product adverticed in an email sent to
>hundreds of people I see as dubious.
>
>>But please note, the site you quote does NOT say that all commercial
>>e-mails are spam, in fact it clearly indicates that e-mail must be more than
>>merely commercial to be spam.
>
>No, they need not have anything to do with commercial products, though they most
>often do.
>"Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an
>attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive
>it."
>
>
>>The ICD e-mail doesn't fit this "type" of spam at all.
>
>Those are logical ORs not ANDs :)
>If it fits one of them it is spam.
>
>>"Email spam targets individual users with direct mail messages. Email spam lists
>>are often created by scanning Usenet postings, stealing Internet mailing lists,
>>or searching the Web for addresses."
>>
>>This is tiny bit closer, but still does not match.  ICD did not scan Usenet, did
>>not steal mailing lists, did not search the web.  It is their own private
>>mailing list, which they created at great time and expense on their part, and
>>which is not shared with anyone else.  And if you don't want to be on this
>>mailing list, unsubscribe, as you can with any other respectable commercial
>>mailing list.
>>
>>I just don't understand how you can equate an e-mail targeted directly towards a
>>very limited group of people that clearly have a HIGH probability of being
>>interested in the content of the e-mail, as being spam.
>
>Because high probability or not, it is not relevant to the definition of spam.
>Spammers often try to target their spam to the users they feel are most probably
>costumers, it is still spam.
>
>
>> Commercial e-mail is
>>not == spam.  For an e-mail to be spam it generally will be (based on reading
>>the site link *you* provided): 1) commercial, 2) sent to a very broad
>>distribution at low cost to the sender and 3) unlikely to be of interest to the
>>vast majority of recipients.  But the commercial nature of ICD's e-mail
>>(criteria #1) is the ONLY thing that matches the description of spam on the site
>>you mentioned.
>>
>>My ONLY regret with the ICD e-mail is that for me it came one day too late, as I
>>had just placed an order the day before.  I have a question.  Do you think that
>>ANY e-mail list that is for commercial purposes is automatically spam?  If not,
>>then what commercial e-mail lists are NOT spam?
>>
>>>The rest of your mail is not worth my time...
>>
>>If someone sees things differently from you, their mail is not worth your time?
>>What a bland world this would be if everyone agreed with everyone else.  In the
>>mean time, I think you should unsubscribe from ICD's e-mail list.  Personally I
>>plan to keep getting their "spam".  I just hope the next one they send doesn't
>>come one day too late.
>
>It was just a bunch of insults to Frank, something like "get lost if you don't
>like it here..", "apologize..". I do not see a reason to reply to that junk.

We disagree on the definition of spam.  That's ok.  I have looked in 4 different
dictionaries, and they all have different definitions of spam too.  Some of the
definitions match your concept of what is spam, some match mine and some define
it in a way that is purely subjective, so that what might be spam for you might
not be for me.

I agree with you that Frank did not deserve the insults he received.  I also
think Steve did not deserve insults.

-R



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