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Subject: Re: Checks in the Qsearch

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 00:49:40 07/04/02

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On July 03, 2002 at 14:29:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 03, 2002 at 13:46:17, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On July 02, 2002 at 20:20:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 02, 2002 at 18:54:49, Keith Evans wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sorry to be anal retentive, but that's a bit of a stretch. Here's what they say:
>>>>
>>>>"The chess chips optionally support the use of an external FPGA (Field
>>>>Programmable Gate Array) to provide access to an external transposition table,
>>>>more complicated search control, and additional terms for the evaluation
>>>>function. In theory this mechanism would have allowed the hardware search to
>>>>approach the efficiency and complexity of the software search. Null move search
>>>>was also explicitly supported by this method. Due to time constraints, this
>>>>capability was never used in Deep Blue."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read on.  On page 67, section 4.1, item 3, "mate threat".
>>>
>>>"It is relatively simple using a null move search to detect if there is a
>>>threat in the current position....  The Deep Blue implementation ...
>>>
>>>Which matches what I said.  They had support for a normal null-move search
>>>had they wanted to use it, but they did use null-move to detect threats,
>>>something that has been done before (and several of us use a form of mate
>>>threat extension based on this idea presently).
>>>
>>>So they used null-move in at least one way, without using it as a forward
>>>pruning algorithm, which fits with Hsu's "no errors in the search" theme he
>>>mentioned repeatedly over the years.  Extra extensions were one thing to him,
>>>but outright errors were something else not to be tolerated.  Right or wrong.
>>>I obviously disagree about the errors in a normal null-move search, but I
>>>can hardly argue with their success...
>>
>>
>>
>>That's my point as well.
>>
>>I don't argue about their success.
>>
>>I'm just saying that they succeeded because their chips were very fast. So fast
>>that they allowed them to use inferior search techniques and still succeed.
>>
>
>Could you not make the _same_ statement about chess 4.0 in 1975?  Until that
>point _everybody_ was doing forward pruning like mad.  They discovered that a
>a shallower full-width search had fewer errors and they stomped everybody into
>the ground until everyone converted...

It is different.
It is obvious that selective search from the first plies
is a mistake when you have speed.

It also seems obvious that pruning rules that are based
on the remaining depth is a good idea and you can use them
and see everything if you search deep enough.

Uri



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