Author: Shaun Graham
Date: 21:26:06 08/04/98
Go up one level in this thread
On August 04, 1998 at 23:19:08, Ed Schröder wrote: >Hi Fernando, > >I think you are right. I already pointed this out in other postings. The >emphasis for future versions is to extend the chess engine with more >useful functions. If you have a look at the Rebel10 Diary you will see >that this is already the case and more is to come over there. > >Changing the subject. It's now about 2 weeks after the match. In the >meantime I have thought a lot about what happened on Ischia. Maybe too >early for my final thoughts and personal conclusions. I wonder where do we >stand in computer chess? > >It looks like playing against the world-top (even against 2800 players!) on >blitz and semi-blitz makes no sense anymore. Rebel played 4 blitz games >5:00 plus 5 Fischer seconds increment for each move which makes the >4 games actually 10:00 games. Then 2 games on 15:00. Result 4.5-1.5 >and believe me I never ever expected this to happen. Apparently you have >to play first to find out. > >The same counts for the 2 tournament games. Before the 2 games my >main fear was that Rebel would have been slaughtered, first positional >out-played, then slowly strangled, all in the well known Seirawan style at >Aegon but then even more effective :) > >The opposite happened. Rebel in both tournament games took the initiative >(a complete new experience for me!) had good winning chances in the >first game and some even say also in the second game, which I tend >to disagree on. > >What on earth is happening? > >I know, I know, just 2 games! > >In this respect I am really looking forward to the 6 Ferret games! It will tell >us more about the current state of computer chess. Please Fernando make sure >this new match will take place! > Well I don't know what we can draw from this match if ferret loses, since ferret isn't well established as one of the top programs(at least to me it isn't) except in blitz. Further though perhaps most are unaware Ivan Morovic is really a top GM he is extremely strong, far from the run of the mill GM(2600+). So i don't know if this will tell us much about the current state of computer chess(unless Ferret someohow just overwhelmingly crushed him) >One of my worries and also coming to my point, say Ferret will do well, >say a victory of 4-2. Next a 6 game match on 40/2:00 versus comp_X >and Kasparov or Anand ending in 3-3 or 4-2 in favor of comp. >All speculation of course. But if it happens my worry is that it is a killer >for computer chess! My assumption is that people will lose interest as >the race on playing strength is finally decided. As long as people play chess, and as long as people want to cheat on the chess servers, people will forever and ever want the strongest possible program. As long as people are incabale of analysing their tournament games like a grandmaster, they will want the strongest possible program. Yes features, and styles are of high interest. But ultimately at least here in America,it's part of our culture to have the absolute best, regardless of if a weaker program was stronger than the world champion. We don't even need to want to play it to buy it, we just buy it because it makes us feel more comfortable having the best. Yes this may be sick, but welcome to America my friends across the sea :). > >My prediction, if it happens some of us have to look for a new job :) Not as long as you can provide the best product, especially in strength(though i must say, Rebel does need to be able to use engines from other programs because that feature of fritz, is just too easy, time saving and fun to get away from. I use hiarcs(i don't know why), Fritz, and junior to analyse my games. I would use rebel 9 to, but i have to shut down fritz with my multiple engines to get into rebel. Then i think, well i already have three evaluations, that's good enough, and rebel sits dormant. > >- Ed - > > >>Hi Ed: >>Knowing that some people is asking you to shoot on your feet, then I dare to >>ask >>something for Rebel 11 around 2 years in advance. Besides, after seeing the >>post >>written by the presumed mummy of Sean Evans, everything is possible. >>Well, the core of my wish list is not strength but coach functions. I am >>already >>beaten 95% of the times by rebel 9 and the rest of Top programs and looking at >>an old poll, it seems I am not the only one here. So, strength is not anymore >>the issue. I don’t say you should weaken your engine or not to devote some >>time >>to improvement, OK, but I would like to see a greater effort in the coach >>functions in order, some day, to improve that 95% loses to, let us say, only >>90%. >>What I want, specifically? >>a) a coach function like that of Fritz, BUT not delivered in the setting of a >>weakened level. Coach should be present in any level, at will. >>b) after the end of the game, if on, the coach should appear and show which >>moves were the cause of defeat, explain why and show which were the good > >>moves, >>step by step >>c) after that, the coach should push the student to examine a lot of exercises >>similar to the position pattern where the mistake was committed. Of course >>this >>assumes Rebel 11 has a huge database with a thoroughly detailed number of key >>positions >>d) rebel 11 should keep in store the mistakes committed and the results of >>exercises so if in another game if a similar positions arises, the coach >>should >>warn that the player must be careful as much in a similar position he ruined a >>game, remember your exercisses, etc. >>In other words, Ed, I see a coach function operating together with normal >>game, >>not as something different. Besides, it is more rewarding and motivating to do >>some study of positions when you still are in the mood of playing chess. There >>are very good programs for learning chess, but they are somewhat boring and >>ask >>from the student an special moment to go through. That is somewhat demanding >>for >>an old fart like me, above 40 years old and in fact in the verge of 50. >>Give it a thought. Learning functions are the future. I don’t see other reason >>to purchase now a new program. Sure many guys feel like me. >>Regards >>fernando
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.