Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:03:15 07/05/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 05, 2002 at 10:28:10, Robert Henry Durrett wrote: >On July 05, 2002 at 08:06:17, Marc van Hal wrote: > >>On July 04, 2002 at 12:35:49, Sune Fischer wrote: >> >>>On July 04, 2002 at 12:08:37, stuart taylor wrote: >>> >>>>On July 04, 2002 at 11:34:13, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 04, 2002 at 10:40:31, Thorsten Czub wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>they lack creating a plan. and choosing the right opening for the right >>>>>>opponent. >>>>> >>>>>One could also say that they investigate all possible plans. >>>>> >>>>>Some of the great moves in history, eg. where Fischer seemingly sacrifices a >>>>>rook for no reason at all in an "equal position", doesn't take computers more >>>>>than a few seconds to find. >>>> >>>>I don't think they'ii easily find that rook (exchange) sacrifice Petrosian made >>>>against (i think) Reshevsky. >> >> >> >>>I'm not saying they can find all great moves ever played, only that they have >>>less of a problem with the unintuitive moves. Many of those exclamation mark >>>moves made by grandmasters are simply piece of cake for the progs. >>> >>>-S. >> >> >> >>What about Kasparov bischop sacrefice in his game against chiburnatse in a >>Gligoric Kings Indian >>or his rook sacrefice for nothing but position against Karpov. > >Perhaps true positional sacrifices would be examples of moves found by humans >but not by computers? Would need some sort of experimental verification to be >sure. Computers can sacrifice material for positional compensation. One example is that my chess program chose 2...e5 when it analyzed the position after 1.e4 h5 2.Be2 and did not try to protect h5 by g6 or h4 or d5. Programs also may choose another sacrifice in that position(shredder5.32 chose Nc6): A lot of the top programs also sacrifice here: New game - Deep Fritz [D]rnbqkbnr/ppppppp1/8/7p/4P3/8/PPPPBPPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 2...Nf6 = (0.19) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 ² (0.31) Depth: 2/5 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.e5 Ng4 4.Bxg4 ² (0.56) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...Nc6! ² (0.53) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...Nc6! 3.Bxh5 ² (0.50) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...e5! ² (0.47) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...h4! ² (0.44) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...h4 3.d4 d5 4.Nc3 dxe4 ² (0.53) Depth: 4/10 00:00:00 2...d5! ² (0.50) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 2kN 2...d5! 3.e5 ² (0.47) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 2kN 2...d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.d4 ² (0.53) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 5kN 2...h4! ² (0.50) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 5kN 2...h4! 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 ² (0.41) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 6kN 2...h4 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxd5 ² (0.47) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 11kN 2...e5! ² (0.44) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 13kN 2...e5! 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.0-0 ² (0.41) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 15kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.Nxd4 Nxd4 ² (0.28) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 35kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Nxd4 6.Qxd4 Nf6 7.e5 ² (0.41) Depth: 8/28 00:00:00 80kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5 Ne4 6.Nxd4 d6 ² (0.34) Depth: 9/25 00:00:00 214kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Qf6 6.c3 Bc5 ² (0.44) Depth: 10/33 00:00:01 585kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4 Nxe4 5.dxe5 Bc5 6.0-0 d5 7.Nbd2 0-0 ² (0.34) Depth: 11/32 00:00:03 1910kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.0-0 Nf6 5.Nc3 h4 6.d4 exd4 7.Nxd4 Nxd4 8.Qxd4 ² (0.47) Depth: 12/37 00:00:15 6399kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Nc3 h4 5.h3 Nf6 6.d3 Be7 7.0-0 d5 8.exd5 ² (0.44) Depth: 13/40 00:00:41 17668kN (blass, tel-aviv 05.07.2002) New game - Deep Fritz rnbqkbnr/ppppppp1/8/7p/4P3/8/PPPPBPPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 5.32: 2...Nf6 = (0.19) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 2...Nf6 = (0.19) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 ± (0.71) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 ± (0.71) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 2...d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 ² (0.68) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 2...d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 ² (0.68) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 2...d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.exd5 Nxd5 ² (0.48) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.c3 Nxe4 ² (0.46) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 ² (0.27) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 ² (0.48) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 e6 ² (0.27) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 2...Nf6 3.e5 Ng4 4.Bxg4 hxg4 5.Qxg4 ² (0.52) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 4kN 2...Nf6 3.e5 Ng4 4.Bxg4 hxg4 5.Na3 d5 6.exd6 ² (0.52) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 6kN 2...d5 3.Bxh5 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nxh5 ² (0.51) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 10kN 2...d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nf3 e6 ² (0.51) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 12kN 2...d5 3.exd5 Nf6 4.Nf3 Nxd5 5.0-0 Nc6 ² (0.59) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 30kN 2...Nf6 3.e5 Ng4 4.Bxg4 hxg4 5.Na3 Nc6 6.Qxg4 ² (0.58) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 34kN 2...Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.d4 d5 5.Bh6 gxh6 6.Nxd5 ² (0.41) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 41kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.d4 d5 ² (0.40) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 45kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e5 5.d3 Bc5 ² (0.30) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 50kN 2...Nc6 3.Bxh5 Nf6 4.Bf3 e6 5.Nc3 Bc5 6.Nge2 ² (0.49) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 82kN 2...Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 e5 5.d4 exd4 6.Ng5 dxc3 7.bxc3 ² (0.49) Depth: 9/18 00:00:01 267kN 2...e5 3.Bxh5 Qh4 4.Bf3 Bc5 5.g3 Qf6 ² (0.48) Depth: 9/18 00:00:02 353kN 2...e5 3.Bxh5 Nf6 4.Bf3 Nc6 5.Nc3 Bc5 6.Nge2 d6 ² (0.45) Depth: 9/18 00:00:02 407kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.0-0 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bc5 6.d3 d6 7.Be3 ² (0.61) Depth: 10/20 00:00:04 633kN 2...e5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.0-0 Bc5 5.d3 d5 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Nxd5 Nxd5 8.exd5 Qxd5 ± (0.77) Depth: 11/22 00:00:10 1325kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.0-0 Be7 6.e5 Nd5 7.Nxd5 ± (0.76) Depth: 11/22 00:00:13 1445kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.0-0 Be7 6.d4 0-0 7.Bf4 d5 ² (0.67) Depth: 11/22 00:00:14 1628kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 e5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bc5 6.Nxe5 0-0 7.Nxc6 dxc6 ² (0.65) Depth: 12/24 00:00:26 3166kN 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 e5 4.0-0 Nf6 5.Nc3 Be7 6.d4 exd4 7.Nxd4 Nxd4 8.Qxd4 d5 9.Nxd5 Nxd5 10.Qxd5 ± (0.72) Depth: 13/26 00:00:46 5248kN (blass, tel-aviv 05.07.2002) New game - Deep Fritz rnbqkbnr/ppppppp1/8/7p/4P3/8/PPPPBPPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 Analysis by Junior 7: 2...h4 3.Nf3 = (0.24) Depth: 3 00:00:00 2...h4 3.Nf3 Rh5 = (0.23) Depth: 6 00:00:00 2...h4 3.d4 c5 4.Qd2 Qb6 ² (0.35) Depth: 9 00:00:00 7kN 2...e5 3.d4 Qh4 4.Nc3 Nc6 = (0.23) Depth: 9 00:00:00 18kN 2...e6 3.d4 Qh4 4.Nd2 Bb4 = (0.13) Depth: 9 00:00:00 28kN 2...d5 3.d4 dxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 = (0.05) Depth: 9 00:00:00 43kN 2...d5 3.e5 Nc6 4.d4 h4 5.Qd3 = (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00 254kN 2...d5 3.e5 d4 4.Bc4 Nc6 5.Nf3 h4 6.Qe2 = (0.02) Depth: 15 00:00:04 2567kN 2...d5 3.e5 d4 4.Na3 e6 5.Nf3 h4 6.Nb5 Nc6 = (0.13) Depth: 17 00:00:32 13217kN 2...e5 3.d4 exd4 4.Nf3 c5 5.c3 d5 6.exd5 Qxd5 7.cxd4 Qe4 = (0.11) Depth: 17 00:01:23 36792kN (blass, tel-aviv 05.07.2002) Uri
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