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Subject: Re: hash collisions

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:04:44 07/10/02

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On July 10, 2002 at 20:42:45, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On July 10, 2002 at 11:04:34, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On July 10, 2002 at 09:30:30, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On July 10, 2002 at 04:30:28, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 10, 2002 at 01:02:38, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I find it fascinating that so many very experienced computer chess programmers
>>>>>do not understand some rather fundamental properties of alpha-beta search.
>>>>>
>>>>>What RH ran into was actually quite predictable. As MF put it, "I'm surprised
>>>>>that you're surprised."
>>>>
>>>>In a PV search some of the nodes are searched twice, so if you get something
>>>>outside the zero window because of a collision, it slows you down as you have to
>>>>research, but it doesn't hurt you unless you get another collision while
>>>>researching.
>>>>
>>>>-S.
>>>
>>>This is not a property of using PVS. A normal alpha-beta search plus hash table
>>>does this too.
>>
>>How so?
>>I would say it does the opposite, since its about refuting moves.
>
>What either one of us has to say on this is really irrelevant. RH needs to
>conduct a more reasonable test. The manner in which he generated the collisions
>plus the use of PVS should be changed.

How would you suggest generating the collisions?  As far as dropping PVS
however, I disagree on.  That is what I _use_ in real games.  That is what
I want to understand the behavior of.  I don't care about variants of
alpha/beta that I am not using myself (ie mtd(f) or something else that
is non-PVS).




>
>>
>>But thinking further about it, the collision could also return a false score
>>outside alpha-beta, so the move is refuted when it should not be. I don't know
>>which is worse, but at least landing _inside_ is harmless as we just research,
>>which was my point.
>>
>>-S.



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