Author: Uri Blass
Date: 15:46:35 07/11/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 11, 2002 at 18:10:38, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >On July 11, 2002 at 17:16:29, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On July 11, 2002 at 17:02:08, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On July 11, 2002 at 16:13:57, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>> >>>>[D]6k1/1p5p/4pQp1/p3P3/2Pp4/4b1P1/1P2KNqP/8 b - - 0 44 >>>> >>>>Could SHREDDER win in this position? >>>> >>>>Rolf Tueschen >>> >>> >>>Some analysis by old shredder on p850(64 Mbytes hash) >>>After 1...Qxf2+ 2.Qxf2 Bxf2 3.Kxf2 >>> >>>New position >>>[D]6k1/1p5p/4p1p1/p3P3/2Pp4/6P1/1P3K1P/8 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Shredder 5.32: >>> >>>3...d3 >>> -+ (-2.92) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >>>3...d3 >>> -+ (-2.92) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >>>3...d3 4.Ke3 >>> µ (-1.32) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >>>3...d3 4.Ke3 >>> -+ (-1.67) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.h4 >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 >>> -+ (-1.74) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 >>> -+ (-1.67) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 >>> -+ (-1.56) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 g5 5.Kd3 a4 >>> µ (-1.31) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Kg7 5.Kd3 Kh6 >>> µ (-0.79) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 a4 5.Kd3 a3 6.bxa3 >>> ³ (-0.26) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 a3 5.bxa3 Kf7 >>> ³ (-0.37) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 a3 5.bxa3 Kf7 >>> ³ (-0.37) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 a3 5.bxa3 Kf7 6.Kd3 >>> ³ (-0.26) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 2kN >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 a3 5.bxa3 Kh8 >>> = (-0.01) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 4kN >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 Kf7 5.Kd3 Ke7 6.Kxd4 h5 >>> ² (0.40) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 5kN >>>3...Kf7 4.Kf3 >>> ² (0.38) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 6kN >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 h5 6.Kxd4 b6 >>> ² (0.35) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 8kN >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 h5 6.Kxd4 b6 7.b3 >>> ² (0.29) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 13kN >>>3...a4 4.Kf3 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 13kN >>>3...a4 4.Kf3 d3 5.Ke3 d2 6.Kxd2 h5 7.h4 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 15kN >>>3...a4 4.Ke2 g5 5.Kd3 g4 6.Kxd4 Kf7 7.c5 Ke7 >>> ² (0.39) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 27kN >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 h5 6.b3 >>> ² (0.38) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 29kN >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 h5 6.b3 g5 7.Kxd4 b6 >>> ² (0.37) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 32kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.h4 d3 6.Ke4 d2 7.g4 >>> ² (0.36) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 36kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.b3 b6 >>> = (0.25) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 39kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.h3 h5 8.b3 >>> = (0.18) Depth: 10/20 00:00:00 49kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.h3 h5 8.b3 b6 >>> = (0.25) Depth: 11/22 00:00:00 69kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.b3 b6 8.h3 h5 9.h4 >>> = (0.02) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 100kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.b3 b6 8.h3 g5 9.g4+ Kf4 >>> = (0.21) Depth: 13/25 00:00:00 145kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.b3 b6 8.c5 bxc5+ 9.Ke3 >>> = (-0.04) Depth: 14/26 00:00:00 213kN >>>3...Kg7 4.Kf3 Kh6 5.Ke4 Kg5 6.Kxd4 Kf5 7.c5 a4 8.Kc3 Kxe5 9.b3 >>> ³ (-0.54) Depth: 14/26 00:00:00 249kN >>>3...Kg7 4.g4 Kh6 5.h4 d3 6.Ke3 a4 7.Kxd3 b6 8.Kc3 a3 9.bxa3 b5 10.cxb5 >>> ³ (-0.54) Depth: 14/26 00:00:01 455kN >>>3...Kg7 4.g4 Kh6 5.h4 d3 6.Ke3 a4 7.Kxd3 a3 8.bxa3 b6 9.c5 b5 10.Kc3 b4+ 11.axb4 >>> ³ (-0.29) Depth: 15/27 00:00:01 542kN >>>3...Kg7 4.g4 Kh6 5.h4 d3 6.Ke3 a4 7.Kxd3 a3 8.bxa3 b6 9.c5 b5 10.Kc3 b4+ 11.axb4 >>> = (0.21) Depth: 15/27 00:00:02 679kN >>>3...Kg7 4.g4 g5 5.Ke2 h5 6.h3 hxg4 7.hxg4 a4 8.c5 Kf7 9.Kd3 Ke7 10.Kxd4 Kd7 >>>11.Ke4 >>> ² (0.30) Depth: 15/27 00:00:03 1063kN >>>3...h5 4.Ke2 Kg7 5.Kd3 Kh6 6.Kxd4 Kg5 7.g4 >>> ² (0.29) Depth: 15/27 00:00:04 1421kN >>>3...h5 4.Ke2 Kg7 5.Kd3 Kh6 6.Kxd4 Kg5 7.Kc5 Kf5 8.Kd6 a4 9.h3 g5 10.c5 g4 >>> ² (0.28) Depth: 15/27 00:00:04 1453kN >>>3...h5 4.Kf3 g5 5.Ke4 b6 6.g4 hxg4 7.c5 bxc5 8.Kd3 a4 9.h4 gxh4 10.Kc4 >>> = (0.21) Depth: 16/28 00:00:10 3214kN >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 h5 5.Ke4 b6 6.g4 hxg4 7.c5 bxc5 8.Kd3 a4 9.h4 gxh4 10.Kc4 >>> = (0.20) Depth: 16/28 00:00:12 3964kN >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 h5 5.Ke4 b6 6.Kxd4 Kf7 7.h3 Ke7 8.g4 h4 9.b3 Kd7 10.Ke4 Kc6 11.Kd4 >>> = (0.20) Depth: 16/28 00:00:12 3978kN >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 Kf7 5.g4 Ke7 6.Ke4 >>> = (0.03) Depth: 17/29 00:00:17 5872kN >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 Kf7 5.g4 Ke7 6.Ke4 Kd7 7.Kxd4 Kc6 8.b3 b5 9.h3 Kb6 10.Kc3 a4 11.Kb4 >>>axb3 12.Kxb3 >>> = (-0.14) Depth: 18/30 00:00:21 6952kN >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 Kf7 5.g4 Ke7 6.Ke4 Kd7 7.Kxd4 Kc6 8.b3 b5 9.h3 Kb6 10.Kc3 Kc5 >>>11.cxb5 Kxb5 12.Kd2 Kc5 >>> = (-0.15) Depth: 19/31 00:00:28 9447kN, tb=6 >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 Kf7 5.Ke4 g4 6.Kxd4 Kg6 7.Kc5 Kf5 8.Kd6 a4 9.c5 h5 10.Kc7 Kxe5 >>>11.Kxb7 Kd5 12.Kb6 e5 >>> = (0.08) Depth: 20/32 00:00:46 15540kN, tb=25 >>>3...g5 4.Kf3 Kf7 5.Ke4 g4 6.Kxd4 b6 7.Ke4 Kg6 8.Kf4 Kh5 9.b3 h6 10.Ke3 Kg5 >>>11.Ke4 Kg6 12.Kf4 a4 13.bxa4 >>> = (0.00) Depth: 21/33 00:01:23 27130kN, tb=117 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h4 a4 8.g4 b5 9.cxb5+ Kxb5 10.h5 gxh5 >>>11.Ke4 >>> = (-0.01) Depth: 21/33 00:01:38 31761kN, tb=169 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.b3 h5 9.g4 h4 10.Ke3 Kc5 11.Kd3 >>> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 21/33 00:01:43 33463kN, tb=171 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.b3 b5 9.h4 bxc4 10.Kxc4 g4 >>>11.h5 h6 12.Kd4 Kb5 13.Kd3 >>> ³ (-0.59) Depth: 22/34 00:01:50 35954kN, tb=198 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.b3 b5 10.cxb5 Kxb5 >>>11.Kb2 Kb4 12.h4 g4 13.h5 Kc5 >>> µ (-0.71) Depth: 22/34 00:01:56 38068kN, tb=218 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.h4 g4 9.Kc3 Kc5 10.b3 h6 11.h5 >>>b5 12.cxb5 Kxb5 13.Kb2 >>> µ (-0.95) Depth: 23/35 00:02:34 49627kN, tb=598 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.h4 g4 9.Kc3 Kc5 10.b3 h6 11.h5 >>>b5 12.cxb5 Kxb5 13.Kb2 >>> µ (-1.20) Depth: 24/36 00:03:26 64935kN, tb=1245 >>>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.b3 h5 9.h4 >>> µ (-1.20) Depth: 24/36 00:04:14 77058kN, tb=2583 >>> >>>(blass, tel-aviv 11.07.2002) >>> >>> >>>Uri >> >>More analysis: >> >>New position >>[D]6k1/1p5p/4p1p1/p3P3/2Pp4/6P1/1P3K1P/8 b - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Shredder 5.32: >> >>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.b3 Kb6 9.h4 g4 10.h5 h6 11.Ke4 >>Kc5 12.Kd3 b5 13.Ke3 bxc4 14.Kf4 cxb3 >> µ (-1.30) Depth: 25/37 00:09:17 158065kN, tb=12757 >>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h3 g5 8.b3 Kb6 9.h4 gxh4 10.gxh4 h5 >>11.Kd3 Kc5 12.Kc2 a4 13.Kc3 axb3 14.Kd2 >> -+ (-1.55) Depth: 26/38 00:14:23 241794kN, tb=27236 >>3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.h4 a4 8.g4 >> -+ (-2.01) Depth: 26/38 00:16:56 285863kN, tb=33660 >> >>(blass, tel-aviv 11.07.2002) >> >> >>Uri > >Uri, thanks, > >could you analyse the variation after Black's Kc6? Then you'll see that Black is >much better. Fritz 7 gets quickly to values of 2 or even 3 for Black. It's a >typical Zugzwang. > >Rolf Tueschen Shredder continued to work about the position some plies before 6...Kc6 and the the score continues to increase. 3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.g4 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.Kb3 Kd4 10.Ka4 Kxe5 -+ (-2.25) Depth: 27/39 00:29:56 496446kN, tb=80723 3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.g4 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.b3 b6 10.h3 h6 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kc2 a4 13.bxa4 Kxc4 -+ (-2.36) Depth: 28/40 00:52:11 856820kN, tb=186974 3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.g4 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.b3 b6 10.h3 h6 11.Kd3 Kb4 12.Kc2 a4 13.bxa4 Kxc4 -+ (-2.61) Depth: 29/41 01:26:25 1414147kN, tb=376992 3...Kf7 4.Ke2 Ke7 5.Kd3 Kd7 6.Kxd4 Kc6 7.g4 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.Kb3 Kd4 10.Ka4 Kxe5 -+ (-2.64) Depth: 29/41 01:40:26 1624603kN, tb=468765 (blass, tel-aviv 12.07.2002) Trying another chess engine I get after Kc6 New position [D]8/1p5p/2k1p1p1/p3P3/2PK4/6P1/1P5P/8 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 7.c5 ² (0.38) Depth: 1 00:00:02 7.g4 ² (0.42) Depth: 1 00:00:02 7.h4 ² (0.48) Depth: 1 00:00:02 7.h4 h5 ² (0.34) Depth: 2 00:00:02 7.h4 h5 8.b3 ² (0.39) Depth: 3 00:00:02 7.h4 h5 8.b3 b5 9.cxb5+ Kxb5 ² (0.29) Depth: 4 00:00:03 7.h4 h5 8.b3 b6 9.Ke4 ² (0.34) Depth: 5 00:00:03 7.h4 h5 8.b3 b6 9.Ke4 Kc5 = (0.18) Depth: 6 00:00:03 3kN 7.g4 g5 8.c5 a4 9.h3 a3 = (0.20) Depth: 6 00:00:03 5kN 7.g4 h5 8.g5 h4 9.h3 b5 = (0.24) Depth: 6 00:00:03 5kN 7.g4 g5 8.b3 b5 9.cxb5+ Kxb5 10.h3 Kb4 = (0.25) Depth: 7 00:00:03 26kN 7.g4 g5 8.b3 b6 9.h3 h6 10.Ke4 Kc5 = (0.18) Depth: 8 00:00:03 62kN 7.g4 h5 8.g5 a4 9.h4 b6 10.Kc3 Kc5 11.Kd3 = (0.06) Depth: 9 00:00:03 425kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 b5 10.cxb5 Kxb5 11.Kb3 Kc5 12.Ka4 Kd5 13.b3 h6 = (-0.24) Depth: 10 00:00:04 708kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 a4 10.h3 b5 11.cxb5 Kxb5 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Kc3 h6 14.Kd3 Kd5 15.Kc3 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:08 3152kN 7.h4 h5 8.b3 b5 9.Kc3 bxc4 10.Kxc4 Kb6 11.b4 a4 12.Kd4 Ka7 13.Kc3 Kb7 14.Kc4 ³ (-0.33) Depth: 11 00:00:10 4339kN 7.h4 a4 8.g4 b5 9.h5 gxh5 10.gxh5 h6 11.cxb5+ Kxb5 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Kc2 Kb4 14.Kd1 Kb3 15.Kc1 Kc4 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:11 4936kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 a4 10.h3 b5 11.cxb5 Kxb5 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Kc3 h6 14.Kd3 Kd5 15.Kc3 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:11 4936kN 7.h3 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 b5 10.cxb5 Kxb5 11.Kb3 h6 12.Ka3 Kc5 13.Ka4 Kd4 14.g4 Kxe5 15.Kxa5 Kd5 16.b3 e5 17.b4 e4 ³ (-0.33) Depth: 11 00:00:13 5533kN 7.h3 b5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.cxb5 Kxb5 10.b3 g5 11.Kb2 Kc5 12.Kc3 h6 13.Kb2 Kd5 14.Ka3 Kxe5 15.Ka4 h5 16.Kxa5 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:13 6129kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 a4 10.h3 b5 11.cxb5 Kxb5 12.Kd3 Kc5 13.Kc3 h6 14.Kd3 Kd5 15.Kc3 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11 00:00:13 6129kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 a4 10.h3 b5 11.cxb5 Kxb5 12.Kd3 Kb4 13.Kc2 Kc4 14.Kd2 Kd4 15.Ke2 Kxe5 16.Kd3 Kd6 17.Ke4 h6 18.h4 ³ (-0.37) Depth: 12 00:00:15 7322kN 7.g4 g5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 a4 10.h3 b6 11.h4 gxh4 12.Kd3 b5 13.Kc2 bxc4 14.Kd2 Kd5 15.g5 h6 16.gxh6 µ (-0.77) Depth: 13 00:00:21 10909kN 7.g4 h5 8.g5 a4 9.h3 b5 10.Kd3 b4 11.Kd4 h4 12.c5 Kb5 13.b3 µ (-0.80) Depth: 13 00:00:29 15747kN 7.b3 g5 8.Kc3 b5 9.cxb5+ Kxb5 10.Kb2 a4 11.bxa4+ Kxa4 12.Kc3 Ka3 13.Kd3 h5 µ (-0.79) Depth: 13 00:00:42 23686kN 7.b3 g5 8.Kc3 Kc5 9.g4 b6 10.h3 b5 11.h4 gxh4 12.Kb2 a4 13.cxb5 Kxb5 14.Kc2 µ (-0.79) Depth: 13 00:00:44 24284kN 7.b3 g5 8.h3 b5 9.cxb5+ Kxb5 10.Kc3 Kc5 11.Kb2 Kd4 12.Ka3 Kxe5 13.Ka4 Kd4 14.Kxa5 e5 15.b4 e4 16.b5 Kc5 17.b6 µ (-1.09) Depth: 14 00:01:06 37664kN 7.b3 h5 8.Kd3 Kc5 9.Kc3 g5 10.h3 g4 11.hxg4 hxg4 12.Kd3 Kb4 13.Kc2 a4 14.bxa4 µ (-1.23) Depth: 15 00:02:35 90326kN (blass, tel-aviv 12.07.2002) Uri
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