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Subject: Re: position from Warp-Junior (round 8)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 01:53:56 07/13/02

Go up one level in this thread


On July 13, 2002 at 03:28:12, Peter McKenzie wrote:

>On July 12, 2002 at 13:31:31, Will Singleton wrote:
>
>>I didn't see any discussion of this game, the pgn was not available for awhile.
>>It appears to me that the game was drawn, but Warp picked the wrong move in the
>>following position (fxg5).  If Bxa5 draws, then Junior was indeed lucky to win
>>the tournament.
>
>the game started about an hour late because the junior guys had a hard disk
>failure and were installing all their tablebases on the new machine.  i was
>quite happy for this to happen.
>
>my random thoughts on the game, although i haven't analysed it yet and won't be
>for a while as i am now on holiday for a couple of weeks;
>
>the game itself was exciting.  warp played the first dubious move with nfg5, but
>it wasn't too serious and the game was still about level.  then junior played a
>series of suspect moves such as ra6, h5, h4.  warp had a good game, and then i
>think junior unsoundly sacrificed a pawn.  warp accepted it and defended well,
>winning another pawn in the process.
>
>so warp is 2 pawns up but junior has a nice blockade and there is no easy way
>for warp to make progress.  probably warp should sacrifice the c-pawn, or even
>sacrifice the exchange.  i think the position is objectively winning but my
>program doesn't see a good plan.
>
>eventually we get near the 50-move rule and also repetitions are an issue.  warp
>has the idea of moving is bishop over to a3 to push the c-pawn.  good idea, but
>not sound because of juniors wonderful f5.  at this late stage of the game the
>thinking time is much reduced, so warp is not searching deep enough to see f5
>coming.  soon after f5 warp thinks it is a draw but a few moves later i think it
>thought it could avoid the draw and maintain a small plus which obviously was
>incorrect.  junior was showing a draw score for a while too, so i suspect you
>are right and a draw was possible.  in the end warp just wasn't up to the task,
>and junior played very well.  i was satisfied with how my program handled the
>middlegame, but i must work on getting a bit more search depth to be fully
>competitive.  of course, playing with 1.7ghz vs 2x2ghz doesn't make it easy
>either.
>
>i wonder how long programs need for f5, good test position i suspect.

Some analysis by chess programs.

Junior7 cannot find it even at depth 20(p850 64 Mbytes hash)

Warp - Deep Junior 7
[D]4q3/5pbk/b1r5/p1rNp1p1/P1P1P1P1/2R1PP1p/Q1RB3P/6K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 7:

59...f5 60.exf5
  +-  (1.46)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
59...f6 60.Rc1
  ²  (0.40)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
59...Bf8 60.f4
  =  (0.23)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
59...Qd8 60.f4
  =  (0.19)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
59...Qf8 60.f4
  =  (0.17)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
59...Qf8 60.Qb3 Qd6
  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
59...Qb8 60.Ne7 Rb6 61.Qa1
  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  2kN
59...Rc8 60.Rc1 R5c6
  ²  (0.26)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  3kN
59...Rc8 60.Rc1 R5c6 61.R3c2 Qd8
  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  15kN
59...Bf8 60.f4 Qc8 61.f5 Bxc4 62.Nf6+ Rxf6 63.Rxc4
  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  36kN
59...Bf8 60.Bc1 Qc8 61.Ba3 Bxc4 62.Qb2 Bd3 63.Bxc5 Bxc2 64.Rxc2 Bxc5 65.Qxe5
  ²  (0.54)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  234kN
59...Qd7 60.Bc1 Re6 61.Ba3 Rc8 62.Qb3 Rec6
  ²  (0.39)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  428kN
59...Rc8 60.Bc1 R5c6 61.Ba3 Re6 62.f4 Qxa4
  ²  (0.33)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  625kN
59...Rc8 60.Bc1 R5c6 61.Ba3 Rb8 62.Be7 Qc8 63.Bxg5
  ²  (0.57)   Depth: 15   00:00:03  2519kN
59...Bf8 60.Bc1 Qc8 61.Ba3 Rxc4 62.Bxf8 Rxc3 63.Rxc3 Rxc3 64.Nxc3 Qxf8 65.Qd5
Qe7
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 15   00:00:05  3627kN
59...Bf8 60.Bc1 Rh6 61.Ba3 Rc8 62.Bxf8 Qxf8 63.Qa1 Rhc6 64.Qf1 Rh6
  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 17   00:00:16  10690kN
59...Kh8 60.Bc1 Re6 61.Bb2 Qd7 62.Qb3 Qc8 63.Ba3 Rcc6 64.Be7
  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 17   00:00:21  14821kN
59...Rc8 60.Qa1 R5c6 61.Qf1 Rh6
  ²  (0.38)   Depth: 17   00:00:41  29309kN
59...Rc8 60.Qa1 R8c6 61.Qd1 Re6 62.Rb2 Rd6 63.Qf1 Qxa4 64.Ne7 Rh6
  ²  (0.38)   Depth: 19   00:01:52  76730kN
59...Rc8 60.Kf2 R8c6 61.Bc1 Re6 62.Kg1 Rc8
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 20   00:07:25  292574kN

(blass, tel-aviv 13.07.2002)




Movei needs almost 10 minutes to fail high on f5 but it is faster than Junior7
in analysis mode.

12 -103 52169 66246874 g7f8 d2c1 e8c8 c1a3 a6c4 a2b2 c4d5 a3c5 f8c5 e4d5 c5e3
g1h1 c6c3 c2c3
12 -102 59380 75883627 f7f5
12 -82 64884 83409576 f7f5 d2c1 f5g4 c1a3 g4f3 a3c5 c6c5 c2f2 g5g4 a2b3 h7g8
c3c1
12 -82 65905 84696998 f7f5 d2c1 f5g4 c1a3 g4f3 a3c5 c6c5 c2f2 g5g4 a2b3 h7g8
c3c1
13 -84 73397 94371749 f7f5 d2c1 f5g4 c1a3 g4f3 a3c5 c6c5 c2c1 e8h5 a2f2 h5g4
f2g3 g4g3 h2g3 h7g6 g1f2


Deep fritz is even faster

Warp - Deep Junior 7
4q3/5pbk/b1r5/p1rNp1p1/P1P1P1P1/2R1PP1p/Q1RB3P/6K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

59...Rxd5--
  +-  (2.81)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
59...Rxd5-- 60.cxd5
  +-  (3.69)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
59...Qe6!
  +-  (2.22)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
59...Qe6!
  +-  (1.62)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
59...Qe6 60.Qb3
  +-  (1.66)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
59...Qc8!
  +-  (1.62)   Depth: 2/22   00:00:00
59...Qc8! 60.Ne7
  ±  (1.37)   Depth: 2/22   00:00:00
59...Qc8--
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
59...Qc8-- 60.Ne7 Qe8 61.Nxc6
  +-  (2.91)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
59...Qe6!
  +-  (2.84)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
59...Qe6! 60.Qb3 Rd6
  +-  (1.56)   Depth: 3/13   00:00:00
59...Qe6 60.Qb3 Qc8 61.Ne7
  +-  (1.47)   Depth: 4/23   00:00:00  2kN
59...Qe6 60.Qb3 Kh8 61.Qb8+ Rc8 62.Qb3
  +-  (1.69)   Depth: 5/22   00:00:00  4kN
59...Rd6!
  +-  (1.66)   Depth: 5/22   00:00:00  7kN
59...Rd6! 60.Qa1
  +-  (1.59)   Depth: 5/22   00:00:00  9kN
59...Rd6--
  +-  (1.91)   Depth: 6/24   00:00:00  27kN
59...Rd6--
  +-  (1.91)   Depth: 6/24   00:00:00  27kN
59...Qe6!
  +-  (1.87)   Depth: 6/24   00:00:00  28kN
59...Qe6! 60.Bc1 Qh6 61.Bb2 Qh4 62.Rc1
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 6/24   00:00:00  36kN
59...Qe6--
  +-  (2.03)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:00  83kN
59...Qe6-- 60.Bc1 Rc8 61.Ba3 R5c6 62.Be7 Qg6
  +-  (2.06)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:00  92kN
59...Rd6!
  +-  (2.03)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:00  103kN
59...Rd6! 60.Bc1 Rd8 61.Ba3 Rcc8 62.Qb3 Qe6
  +-  (1.91)   Depth: 7/22   00:00:00  110kN
59...Bf8!
  +-  (1.87)   Depth: 7/26   00:00:00  131kN
59...Bf8! 60.Qb1 Kg8 61.Qf1 Rh6 62.Qa1 Rd6
  +-  (1.62)   Depth: 7/26   00:00:00  167kN
59...f5!
  +-  (1.59)   Depth: 7/26   00:00:00  191kN
59...f5! 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 g4 62.fxg4 Qxg4 63.Ke1
  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 7/26   00:00:00  201kN
59...f5 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 g4 62.fxg4 Qxg4 63.Ke1 Qh4+ 64.Kd1 Qxe4
  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 8/25   00:00:00  271kN
59...f5 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 g4 62.Bc1 Qh4+ 63.Ke2 gxf3+ 64.Kxf3 Rd6
  +-  (1.78)   Depth: 9/30   00:00:00  403kN
59...Bf8!
  +-  (1.75)   Depth: 9/30   00:00:00  415kN
59...Bf8! 60.Qb1 Kg8 61.Qf1 Rh6 62.Qa1 Rd6 63.Rc1 Qe6
  +-  (1.47)   Depth: 9/30   00:00:01  640kN
59...Bf8--
  +-  (1.78)   Depth: 10/32   00:00:01  1190kN
59...Bf8-- 60.Bc1 Qc8 61.Ba3 Rxc4 62.Bxf8 Rxc3 63.Rxc3 Rxc3 64.Nxc3 Qxf8 65.Qd5
  +-  (1.81)   Depth: 10/32   00:00:02  1250kN
59...f5!
  +-  (1.78)   Depth: 10/32   00:00:02  1552kN
59...f5! 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 g4 62.Bc1 Qh4+ 63.Kf1 g3 64.hxg3 Qxg3 65.Ba3
  +-  (1.72)   Depth: 10/32   00:00:02  1618kN
59...f5 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 Qh4+ 62.Ke2 g4 63.Rc1 gxf3+ 64.Kxf3 Qh5+ 65.Kf2
  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 11/29   00:00:03  2352kN
59...Bf8!
  +-  (1.41)   Depth: 11/31   00:00:04  3064kN
59...Bf8 60.Bc1 Qc8 61.Ba3 Bxc4 62.Qb2 Bxd5 63.Bxc5 Bxc5 64.exd5 Bxe3+ 65.Kh1
  +-  (1.66)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:06  4279kN
59...f5!
  +-  (1.62)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:06  4611kN
59...f5! 60.gxf5 Qh5 61.Kf2 Qh4+ 62.Ke2 g4 63.Bc1 gxf3+ 64.Kxf3 Qh5+ 65.Kg3
  ±  (1.19)   Depth: 12/34   00:00:07  5554kN
59...f5 60.exf5 e4 61.f6 Bxf6 62.Nxf6+ Rxf6 63.f4 Qg8 64.f5 Rfc6 65.Rc1
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 13/35   00:00:22  16915kN

(blass, tel-aviv 13.07.2002)

Uri



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