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Subject: Re: Alpha-beta question

Author: Ralf Elvsén

Date: 02:58:15 07/13/02

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On July 13, 2002 at 02:29:16, TEERAPONG TOVIRAT wrote:

>On July 13, 2002 at 01:38:49, Russell Reagan wrote:
>
>>I have a question about alpha-beta. My understanding is that with perfect move
>>ordering, you can get your branching factor down to the square root of the
>>min-max branching factor. I did a few walk throughs of small trees using
>>alpha-beta because I wanted to "see" what the tree looked like (where cutoffs
>>occured), and I don't find this to be the case. I did a simple ternary tree walk
>>through, and these are my numbers:
>>
>>Depth=1 : 4 nodes
>>Depth=2 : 9 nodes
>>Depth=3 : 49 nodes
>>Depth=4 : 132 nodes
>>
>>Using a min-max search the branching factor should be 3. The branching factor
>>for each of these depths was 2.22, 2.45, and 2.69 (which looks to be approaching
>>3 with added depth). The square root of 3 is 1.73, so am I misinterpreting what
>>I heard about the branching factor and alpha-beta?
>>
>>In other words...If your min-max branching factor is N, then does using
>>alpha-beta with perfect move ordering give you the square root of N as the
>>branching factor, or is that the lowest possible limit of the branching factor?
>>
>>If I understand this all correctly, that means that in chess a branching factor
>>below about 6 is not possible without using forward pruning (using alpha-beta)?
>>How much will PVS lower the branching factor with no forward pruning?
>
>
>Hi,
>
>Quite a while back,I discussed with Ralf about this topic.
>He is  very good at math. He worked out a formula to calculate
>the number of nodes on odd and even ply. We reached a
>conclusion that the branching factor from alpha-beta is approximately
>the square root of that of minimax ONLY if the minimax branching
>factor is much more than 3. It's said in chess we have branching factor
>around 40.So, you may try to increase the branching factor to see the
>difference. I 'm sorry I can't remember Ralf's formulas.
>Perhaps,he may post here again.
>
>Teerapong

I think you are referring to something I wrote about the number of
makemoves compared to the number of generatemoves depending on the
branching factor N. This number was non-trivial to compute but had
a nice limit as N grows. But the effective average branching factor
of alpha-beta is the squareroot of N for all N.
Ralf



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