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Subject: Re: game position: Cerbro vs Horizon

Author: José Carlos

Date: 17:07:20 07/14/02

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On July 14, 2002 at 02:14:33, Ron Murawski wrote:

>Horizon 3.2 drew a game against Cerebro 1.10 in Leo Dijksman's 3rd Division
>Ridderkerk tournament. Just for the record, here is the game:
>
>[Event "WBEC3_3rdDivision"]
>[Site "DUAL-P3-933"]
>[Date "2002.07.12"]
>[Round "1.3"]
>[Number "399"]
>[White "Cerebro 1.10b"]
>[Black "Horizon 3.2"]
>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>[TimeControl "40/2400"]
>
>1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. e3 b5 5. a4 b4 6. Ne4 Nf6 7. Nxf6+ exf6 8.
>Bxc4 Be7 9. Qc2 Be6 10. Ne2 Bxc4 11. Qxc4 O-O 12. O-O Qd5 13. Qc2 c5 14. e4
>Qb7 15. d5 f5 16. f3 Nd7 17. Bf4 fxe4 18. fxe4 Bf6 19. g4 h6 20. Kh1 b3 21.
>Qc1 Rfe8 22. Ng3 c4 23. Bd2 Be5 24. Bf4 Bf6 25. Qxc4 Bxb2 26. Rad1 Rac8 27.
>Qe2 Rc2 28. Rd2 Rxd2 29. Qxd2 Bf6 30. Be3 Be5 31. Bf4 Bxf4 32. Qxf4 Nf6 33.
>Qf3 b2 34. Rb1 Rc8 35. Ne2 Rc4 36. g5 Nxe4 37. gxh6 Rxa4 38. hxg7 Nd2 39.
>Qh5 Rh4 40. Rxb2 Qxb2 41. Qxh4 Qb1+ 42. Ng1 Qe4+ 43. Qxe4 Nxe4 44. Ne2 Kxg7
>45. Kg2 Kf6 46. h4 Ke5 47. h5 Nf6 48. h6 Kxd5 49. Kf1 Ke4 50. Ke1 Nh7 51.
>Kd2 Kf5 52. Kc3 Kg6 53. Kb4 Kh5 54. Nd4 Kg4 55. Ka5 Kf4 56. Ka6 Ke4 57. Ne2
>Ke3 58. Ng3 Kf4 59. Ne2+ Kf3 60. Nd4+ Kf2 61. Nf5 Kf3 62. Nd6 Kf4 63. Nxf7
>Kf5 64. Kxa7 Ke6 65. Ka6 Kxf7 66. Ka5 Ke8 67. Ka4 Kd8 68. Ka3 Kc8 69. Ka2
>Kb8 70. Ka1 Ka8 71. Kb1 Kb8 72. Ka1 Ka8 73. Kb1 Kb8 74. Ka1
>{Three fold repetition} 1/2-1/2
>
>
>I believe that Horizon had a win in hand until this position:
>
>[D] 6k1/pq3pP1/8/3P4/r3n3/5Q2/1p2N2P/1R5K b - - 0 38
>
>where Horizon played 38...Nd2 with an eval score of more that +6.00.
>
>Here's two WinBoard analysis snapshots after 5 minutes running on an AMD 1.8 GHz
>w/64 MB hash for Horizon and for Crafty.
>
>Horizon 3.2 (where +6.70 means Black is ahead)
>depth=11 15/35 +6.70 Nd2 Qh5 Rh4 Rxb2 Qxb2 Qxh4 Qb1+ Ng1 Qxg1+ Kxg1 Nf3+ Kf2
>Nodes: 77677043 NPS: 258071
>Time: 00:05:00.99
>
>Crafty 18.15 (where -5.41 means Black is ahead)
>depth=14 1/35 -5.41 1. ... Nd2 2. Qf5 Rh4 3. Rd1 b1=Q 4. Rxb1 Qxb1+ 5. Qxb1 Nxb1
>6. d6 Rh6 7. d7 Rd6 8. Ng3 Nd2 9. h4 Kxg7
>Nodes: 319129163 NPS: 1060758
>Time: 00:05:00.85
>
>It is interesting to note that Crafty 18.15 endorses Horizon's move 38...Nd2 and
>also scores it as Black ahead big-time.
>
>But when I analyzed using Chess Tiger and Fritz, I saw a different assessment.
>(In both of the following analyses, the more negative the score the better it is
>for Black.)
>
>Here's analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0:
>
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Kxg7 3.Qg2+ Kf8 4.Rb8+ Ke7 5.Rb1 Rc4
>  ³  (-0.50)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  237kN
>1...Rb4 2.Nf4 Qb5 3.Qg2 Qc4 4.Nh5 Qxd5
>  ³  (-0.64)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  313kN
>1...Rb4 2.Nf4 Qe7 3.Nd3 Nd2 4.d6 Qxd6 5.Qa8+ Rb8
>  ³  (-0.62)   Depth: 8   00:00:01  650kN
>1...Rb4 2.Qh5 Kxg7 3.Nd4 Nf2+ 4.Kg2 Nd3 5.Qg5+ Kf8 6.Qd8+ Kg7 7.Qg5+
>  =  (0.15)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  1130kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Kxg7 3.Qg4+ Ng5+ 4.Qg2 Qd1+ 5.Qg1 Qxg1+ 6.Kxg1 Rg4+ 7.Ng3 a5
>8.Rb7 a4
>  µ  (-0.72)   Depth: 9   00:00:02  1559kN
>1...Nd2 2.Qh5 Rh4 3.Rxb2 Qxb2 4.Qxh4 Qb1+ 5.Ng1 Qxg1+ 6.Kxg1 Nf3+ 7.Kh1 Nxh4
>  µ  (-0.86)   Depth: 9   00:00:02  1670kN
>1...Nd2 2.Qh5 Rh4 3.Rxb2 Qxb2 4.Qxh4 Qb1+ 5.Ng1 Qxg1+ 6.Kxg1 Nf3+ 7.Kh1 Nxh4
>  µ  (-0.86)   Depth: 10   00:00:03  1828kN
>1...Ng5 2.Qf5 Ra1 3.Nc3 Rxb1+ 4.Nxb1 Ne6 5.h4 Nxg7 6.Qe5 a5
>  µ  (-1.10)   Depth: 10   00:00:03  2386kN
>1...Ng5 2.Qf5 Ra1 3.Nc3 Qb4 4.Qe5 Rxb1+ 5.Nxb1 Qe4+ 6.Qxe4 Nxe4
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 11   00:00:05  3169kN
>1...Qxd5
>  -+  (-2.00)   Depth: 11   00:00:10  6698kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kg3 Nxd5 6.Rd2 Nf4
>  -+  (-2.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:12  7886kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rg2 Rh4 7.Kf2 a5
>  -+  (-3.12)   Depth: 12   00:00:30  19934kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2
>  -+  (-3.12)   Depth: 13   00:00:32  21494kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf1 Nxd5 6.Rb5 Rd4 7.Rb7 Kxg7
>8.Rxa7 Rd2
>  -+  (-3.76)   Depth: 14   00:01:12  48458kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rg2 Rf4+ 7.Ke2 Rh4
>8.Kf3 a5 9.Rg5 Nf4
>  -+  (-3.42)   Depth: 15   00:02:07  85404kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf1 Nxd5 6.Rb5 Nf6 7.Rb7 Rf4+
>8.Ke1 Kxg7 9.Rxa7 Rh4
>  -+  (-3.92)   Depth: 16   00:07:17  299312kN, tb=27
>1...Ng5 2.Qf5 Ra1 3.Nc3 Qb4 4.Qc8+ Kxg7 5.Qf5 f6 6.Qc2 Qxc3 7.Qxc3 Rxb1+ 8.Kg2
>Rg1+ 9.Kxg1 b1Q+ 10.Kg2
>  -+  (-4.14)   Depth: 16   00:20:12  841933kN, tb=32
>1...Ng5 2.Qf5 Ra1 3.Nc3 Qb4 4.Qc8+ Kxg7 5.Qf5 f6 6.Qd3 Qb3 7.Qg3 Rxb1+ 8.Nxb1
>Qxd5+ 9.Qg2 Qd3 10.Nd2
>  -+  (-4.26)   Depth: 17   00:32:43  1364414kN, tb=45
>
>Here's analysis by Fritz 6 Light:
>
>1...Kxg7!
>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 1/8   00:00:00
>1...Kxg7! 2.Rg1+ Kh8
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 1/8   00:00:00
>1...Kxg7 2.Rg1+ Kf8
>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>1...Rb4!
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 2/6   00:00:00
>1...Rb4! 2.Ng3 Nxg3+ 3.Qxg3 Qxd5+ 4.Kg1
>  µ  (-0.97)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
>1...Nd2!
>  µ  (-1.03)   Depth: 2/9   00:00:00
>1...Nd2! 2.Qf5 Nxb1 3.Qxb1 Qxd5+ 4.Kg1 Kxg7 5.Qxb2+ f6
>  -+  (-2.50)   Depth: 2/11   00:00:00
>1...Nd2--
>  ³  (-0.53)   Depth: 3/7   00:00:00
>1...Nd2-- 2.Qh5 Rh4
>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 3/12   00:00:00  1kN
>1...Rb4!
>  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 3/15   00:00:00  1kN
>1...Rb4! 2.Qh5
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 3/15   00:00:00  2kN
>1...Rb4--
>  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  2kN
>1...Rb4--
>  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00  3kN
>1...Qxd5!
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 4/13   00:00:00  8kN
>1...Qxd5! 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Qxf3+ 4.Kxf3 Nxe2 5.Rxe2 Kxg7
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00  12kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Qxf3+ 4.Kxf3 Nxe2 5.Rxe2 Kxg7
>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  26kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Qxf3+ 4.Kxf3 Ne4 5.Ng3 Nxg3 6.hxg3
>  µ  (-1.16)   Depth: 6/18   00:00:00  55kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Nf2+ 3.Kg2 Qxf3+ 4.Kxf3 Nd3 5.Rb8+ Kxg7 6.Ng3
>  µ  (-1.09)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:00  182kN
>1...Qxd5!
>  -+  (-1.41)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:00  462kN
>1...Qxd5! 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3
>  -+  (-2.84)   Depth: 8/23   00:00:00  1048kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rd2
>  -+  (-3.06)   Depth: 9/25   00:00:01  1725kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rg2
>  -+  (-3.13)   Depth: 10/27   00:00:01  2892kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rg2
>  -+  (-3.34)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:03  7062kN
>1...Qxd5!
>  -+  (-3.66)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:10  19591kN
>1...Qxd5! 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rd2
>  -+  (-4.25)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:34  70353kN
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rd2
>  -+  (-4.47)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:08  138628kN, tb=3
>1...Qxd5 2.Rxb2 Ng3+ 3.Kg2 Nxe2 4.Qxd5 Nf4+ 5.Kf3 Nxd5 6.Rd2
>  -+  (-4.53)   Depth: 14/37   00:06:02  779323kN, tb=90
>
>So it seems that 38...Qxd5 or 38...Ng5 can win the game for Black. If you force
>Horizon's game move 38...Nd2 into either Tiger or Fritz the eval scoring gets
>close to 0.00.
>
>If anyone has a clue why Horizon and Crafty's eval scoring are off by more than
>5 pawns for this position I would be interested. All theories are welcome.
>
>Ron

  Averno 0.46 likes Qxd5 (Athlon 550):

1	0.10	0.00	      12  b7d5
1	0.36	0.00	      33  g8g7!
1	0.82	0.00	      43  g8g7!
1	0.82	0.00	      43  g8g7
1	0.82	0.00	      77--g8g7
2	0.69	0.00	     184  g8g7 e2f4
2	0.95	0.00	     441  e4d2!
2	2.45	0.00	     555  e4d2!
2	3.18	0.00	     684  e4d2 b1b2
2	3.18	0.00	     840--e4d2 b1b2
3	3.43	0.00	    1052  e4d2!
3	3.41	0.00	    1527--e4d2 b1b2 *
4	3.16	0.00	    3244  e4d2?
4	1.66	0.00	    3574  e4d2?
4	-0.24	0.00	    4329  e4d2 f3h5 a4h4 h5h4
4	0.02	0.00	    8602  g8g7!
4	0.94	0.00	   15389  g8g7!
4	0.94	0.00	   15389  g8g7 e2f4 a4b4 b1f1
4	1.20	0.00	   23773  b7d5!
4	1.29	0.00	   26459  b7d5!
4	1.29	0.00	   26459  b7d5 e2f4 e4f2 h1g2
4	1.29	0.00	   29607--b7d5 e2f4 e4f2 h1g2
5	1.04	0.00	   72267  b7d5?
5	1.04	0.00	   77167  b7d5 b1b2 a4a1 h1g2 g8g7
5	1.04	0.00	   95443--b7d5 b1b2 a4a1 h1g2 g8g7
6	0.93	0.00	  175685  b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 d5f3 g2f3
6	0.93	1.00	  415591--b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 d5f3 g2f3
7	1.18	2.00	  466063  b7d5!
7	2.17	3.00	  653377  b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4
7	2.17	3.00	  797190--b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4
8	2.16	6.00	 1299308  b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4 g2f3
8	2.16	9.00	 2035478--b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4 g2f3
9	2.41	12.00	 2592140  b7d5!
9	3.48	26.00	 4954725  b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4 g2f3 f4d5
9	3.48	28.00	 5564401--b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4 g2f3 f4d5
10	3.73	36.00	 7142980  b7d5!
10	3.71	79.00	13311112--b7d5 b1b2 e4g3 h1g2 g3e2 f3d5 e2f4 g2f3 f4d5 *
11	3.96	163.00	23655180  b7d5!

  After forcing Nd2 it wants to play Qh5, but doesn't see how good it is (in a
reasonable time):

1	-9.82	0.00	      12  f3f7
1	-9.56	0.00	      21  b1b2!
1	-8.06	0.00	      28  b1b2!
1	-3.18	0.00	      49  b1b2
1	-3.18	0.00	     155--b1b2
2	-2.93	0.00	     245  b1b2!
2	-2.69	0.00	     405  f3h5!
2	-1.19	0.00	     444  f3h5!
2	-1.20	0.00	     495--f3h5 *
3	-0.95	0.00	     678  f3h5!
3	0.01	0.00	    1026  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2
3	0.01	0.00	    1250--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2
4	0.26	0.00	    1748  f3h5!
4	0.24	0.00	    3730--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 *
5	-0.01	0.00	    4126  f3h5?
5	-0.01	0.00	    5849  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 *
5	-0.01	0.00	    6884--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 *
6	-0.26	0.00	   10399  f3h5?
6	-1.19	0.00	   16355  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7e7 h5f5 e7e2
6	-1.19	0.00	   27698--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7e7 h5f5 e7e2
7	-1.44	0.00	   34347  f3h5?
7	-1.89	0.00	   52292  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7e7 h5h8 h4h8 g7h8Q
7	-1.89	0.00	  116953--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7e7 h5h8 h4h8 g7h8Q
8	-1.64	0.00	  145927  f3h5!
8	-1.00	0.00	  211266  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
8	-1.00	1.00	  468725--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
9	-1.25	2.00	  503593  f3h5?
9	-1.25	2.00	  565654  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1 *
9	-1.25	7.00	 1745616--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1 *
10	-1.50	7.00	 1859614  f3h5?
10	-2.43	8.00	 2086967  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
                                  h1g1 d2f3
10	-2.43	22.00	 5564632--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
                                  h1g1 d2f3
11	-2.18	25.00	 6336647  f3h5!
11	-2.20	204.00	48299343--f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
                                  h1g1 d2f3 *
12	-2.10	225.00	53129388  f3h5 a4h4 b1b2 b7b2 h5h4 b2a1 e2g1 a1g1
                                  h1g1 d2f3 g1f2 f3h4

  José C.



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