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Subject: Re: North American Open 2003.

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 10:45:52 07/17/02

Go up one level in this thread


On July 17, 2002 at 07:11:20, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On July 17, 2002 at 06:27:20, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On July 17, 2002 at 05:56:52, Nicolas GUIBERT wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>After reading the posts of others, I think that one thing should be made clear.
>>>>I think you should decide what kind of tournament this is going to be, then
>>>>develop the rest of it around it. For example, if it was going to be a "world
>>>>championship", then (IMO) the goal is to determine the best engine in the world.
>>>>If that is your goal, I would expect longer time controls...
>>>
>>>NO NO NO
>>>
>>>If you want to try and determine the best engine, do not play at longer time
>>>controls !!!!!!
>>>
>>>BUT... Do play a lot more games with shorter time controls.
>>>
>>>Then you will get a more reliable result !
>>>
>>>I have never understood why computer chess competitions are so slow. For human
>>>players, this is understandable. For computers, it is just nonsense. I believe
>>>that this has to do with history. The first competitions had to be played slowly
>>>because the computers were terribly bad at Chess (low depths)... But that was 20
>>>years ago ! Computer science evolved quite a bit since then.
>>>
>>>Do you like playing random tournaments or do you really want to get an accurate
>>>picture of the computer chess landscape ?
>>
>>Absolutely.  The biggest problem (as I see it) is the quality of the games with
>>the longer time controls.  After all, we won't see any brilliancies like these
>>at G/90 or slower on fast hardware:
>>
>>The true beauteous wonder that is "lightning chess" makes me pine for the days
>>when all games will be run at G/1 minute or faster.
>
>It's not that big of a problem IMO, you get a lot of games with G/5, so even if
>2 of 40 are flukes it won't matter, if you get 20 of 40 flukes then chances are
>they spread evenly between the two contenders, so again it won't matter.
>If you instead play two G/120 games, and one of them is a fluke, it matters a
>lot.
>
>In other words: Say I give you two hours, you need to figure out if an
>improvement you have made to your engine is really an improvement.
>Now do you play 1 or 2 slow games against a third opponent, or do you prefer 20
>blitz games?
>I would _always_ pick the blitz gauntlet, for better statistics (more games +
>more opponents).
>
>I agree it is better (more interesting) to play 100 slow games than 100 fast
>games, but that is never the choice we have to make :)

Here is a rating list of very quick paced games.  You can find the actual games
here:
ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/The%20Gauntlet/calibration/quick/
No set of contests with less than 20 games was included, to reduce the noise.

If you think that the randomness evens out, think again.  This is clearly wrong,
as a glance will tell you:


    Program                  Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

  1 Delfi 1.01             : 2799   88 502    20    95.0 %   2287    0.0 %
  2 LGoliath               : 2757   71 332    22    95.5 %   2228    9.1 %
  3 Comet B.37             : 2724  113 370    20    92.5 %   2287    5.0 %
  4 Sjeng73                : 2672   38 187   122    89.8 %   2295    2.5 %
  5 MAD                    : 2664  111 391    21    90.5 %   2273    0.0 %
  6 Arasanx-54             : 2649   25 129   287    88.5 %   2294    1.4 %
  7 AnMon                  : 2649   40 121   129    83.3 %   2369    8.5 %
  8 Gully2                 : 2629  107 391    22    90.9 %   2229    0.0 %
  9 Crafty-18.2            : 2625  111 300    21    90.5 %   2234    9.5 %
 10 Quark v1.46alpha       : 2624   39 172   123    87.8 %   2281    1.6 %
 11 Morphy                 : 2623  102 320    24    89.6 %   2249    4.2 %
 12 Faile                  : 2598  101 273    25    88.0 %   2252    8.0 %
 13 Comet B.36             : 2594   28 114   247    84.6 %   2298    0.8 %
 14 Ghost                  : 2577  102 282    25    86.0 %   2262    4.0 %
 15 Gaviota                : 2573  113 317    21    88.1 %   2226    4.8 %
 16 WildCat                : 2552  118 315    20    87.5 %   2214    5.0 %
 17 Knightx                : 2547  111 330    22    86.4 %   2227    0.0 %
 18 Sjeng 10 CCT           : 2546   41 136   124    82.3 %   2280    1.6 %
 19 Yace 0.99.50           : 2545   33 109   189    81.7 %   2285    2.6 %
 20 TSCP-152               : 2542   44 110   115    80.4 %   2296   11.3 %
 21 Bestia                 : 2538  115 329    21    85.7 %   2227    0.0 %
 22 ExChess4               : 2537  106 281    24    85.4 %   2230    4.2 %
 23 Bringer-18             : 2532   26  81   306    79.2 %   2299    2.3 %
 24 TSCP-172               : 2529   44 125   115    79.6 %   2293    2.6 %
 25 Fortress               : 2527  120 329    20    85.0 %   2226    0.0 %
 26 LG2000V3               : 2519   28  77   281    77.0 %   2308    2.5 %
 27 OliThink               : 2515  120 265    20    85.0 %   2214   10.0 %
 28 GNU Chess v5.02        : 2513   27  76   305    77.5 %   2298    2.3 %
 29 Dragon-311             : 2511   28  81   286    77.4 %   2296    0.3 %
 30 Averno-30              : 2508   35  96   189    77.2 %   2295    1.1 %
 31 GNUChess4              : 2507  118 278    21    83.3 %   2227    4.8 %
 32 LordKingV2_9           : 2505  120 240    21    81.0 %   2254    9.5 %
 33 Beowulf                : 2504  126 239    20    80.0 %   2263   10.0 %
 34 Phalanx-xxii           : 2492   46 112   115    76.5 %   2287    3.5 %
 35 Bringer                : 2491  121 220    22    77.3 %   2279    9.1 %
 36 Nejmet                 : 2482  126 288    20    80.0 %   2242    0.0 %
 37 TSCP                   : 2468   95 276    27    88.9 %   2107    7.4 %
 38 Ufim143                : 2467   48 102   115    72.6 %   2298    2.6 %
 39 Morphy-322             : 2459   43  85   148    70.6 %   2307    3.4 %
 40 Gully213p16            : 2459   30  62   293    71.0 %   2303    3.4 %
 41 ArasanX                : 2451  118 228    23    76.1 %   2250    4.3 %
 42 LDBlanche              : 2449  126 234    22    72.7 %   2279    0.0 %
 43 ExChess-402            : 2441   31  61   284    69.5 %   2297    2.5 %
 44 Holmes                 : 2440  128 248    20    77.5 %   2225    5.0 %
 45 Yace-020               : 2436   48  88   123    68.7 %   2300    4.1 %
 46 Averno-32              : 2429   32  57   285    67.4 %   2303    3.5 %
 47 Bestia-07              : 2427   33  58   271    67.0 %   2304    3.3 %
 48 Pepito v1.21           : 2414   48  90   124    68.5 %   2279    1.6 %
 49 King of Kings 1.95     : 2410   64 101    79    65.8 %   2296    5.1 %
 50 ZChess-222             : 2409   31  52   302    67.9 %   2279    9.9 %
 51 chezzz                 : 2406  126 189    23    69.6 %   2263    8.7 %
 52 WBQueen-214            : 2406   61 102    83    66.9 %   2284    3.6 %
 53 DrChess                : 2404  129 209    22    70.5 %   2253    4.5 %
 54 WildCat-257            : 2402   53  80   116    63.8 %   2303    5.2 %
 55 LDBlanche-20c          : 2400   33  53   290    63.3 %   2305    1.7 %
 56 DrChess-20             : 2394   34  53   284    63.4 %   2299    2.8 %
 57 ColChessp              : 2393  135 157    21    69.0 %   2254   23.8 %
 58 chezzz-088             : 2391   34  51   283    63.4 %   2296    6.0 %
 59 AnMon-509              : 2390   36  53   262    61.3 %   2310    1.1 %
 60 ExChess-311            : 2390   34  51   284    62.9 %   2298    3.9 %
 61 Ghost-13               : 2388   34  51   295    62.0 %   2303    0.7 %
 62 AnMon-510              : 2387   35  53   268    61.6 %   2305    0.7 %
 63 FranWB                 : 2385  135 193    22    65.9 %   2271    4.5 %
 64 Ant                    : 2381  126 234    22    72.7 %   2211    0.0 %
 65 Mint v2.3              : 2374   34  46   306    60.1 %   2302    4.6 %
 66 OliThink-305c          : 2368   55  80   118    61.0 %   2290    0.0 %
 67 Freyr                  : 2362  132 199    23    65.2 %   2253    0.0 %
 68 ZChess-120             : 2359   33  45   312    60.9 %   2282    6.4 %
 69 WinCraft               : 2357   60  80   102    59.8 %   2288    3.9 %
 70 Gaviota-022            : 2355   36  46   286    57.5 %   2303    3.1 %
 71 Freyr-1067             : 2354   37  48   280    57.9 %   2299    1.4 %
 72 Beowulf-16b            : 2354   30  38   433    57.3 %   2303    2.3 %
 73 Noonian-30             : 2351   57  71   120    58.3 %   2293    5.0 %
 74 LordKing-29            : 2347   37  44   288    55.9 %   2306    3.5 %
 75 DChess-102             : 2343   38  45   281    56.0 %   2300    3.2 %
 76 Esc                    : 2342  135 193    22    65.9 %   2228    4.5 %
 77 LordKing-29D           : 2341   38  43   288    55.2 %   2305    4.9 %
 78 LarsenVB               : 2335  139 165    23    60.9 %   2258    8.7 %
 79 Raffaela-005           : 2334   58  71   118    56.8 %   2287    3.4 %
 80 Green Light Chess v2.13: 2334   40  46   259    54.8 %   2300    3.1 %
 81 LambChop-710           : 2331  153 198    20    60.0 %   2261    0.0 %
 82 Esc-028                : 2326   39  44   278    54.1 %   2297    2.5 %
 83 Amyan-111              : 2324   39  39   298    52.3 %   2308    6.7 %
 84 Gerbil-01              : 2323   40  42   274    53.3 %   2300    5.1 %
 85 Noonian                : 2322  142 160    22    61.4 %   2242   13.6 %
 86 King of Kings 1.96     : 2320   50  49   194    50.8 %   2315    4.6 %
 87 Aldebaran 0.7.0        : 2320   33  30   439    50.1 %   2319    9.1 %
 88 The Crazy Bishop, 46.01: 2315   78  92    68    57.4 %   2264    5.9 %
 89 Nejmet-260             : 2313   62  69   116    53.9 %   2286    0.9 %
 90 Storm-006              : 2311   62  67   118    52.5 %   2294    1.7 %
 91 DChess                 : 2311  139 174    24    58.3 %   2253    0.0 %
 92 Faile-14               : 2306   41  40   280    51.6 %   2295    6.8 %
 93 Amyan-1423             : 2297   44  43   245    48.4 %   2308    4.5 %
 94 SSEchess-2045          : 2292   61  64   120    49.6 %   2295    5.8 %
 95 Gerbil                 : 2283  150 159    23    54.3 %   2253    4.3 %
 96 EnginMax               : 2281  153 184    21    57.1 %   2231    0.0 %
 97 Ant-606                : 2280   43  39   291    46.9 %   2301    1.0 %
 98 31337-30               : 2273   29  27   569    46.0 %   2301    7.9 %
 99 TCBishop-0045          : 2273   61  64   115    48.7 %   2282    8.7 %
100 Bace                   : 2268   55  34   260    33.7 %   2386    8.1 %
101 Holmes-040             : 2258   53  45   204    44.6 %   2295    2.0 %
102 Bace-45                : 2256   57  52   156    44.6 %   2294    7.1 %
103 Cilian                 : 2254  141 141    20    50.0 %   2254   30.0 %
104 Chessterfield          : 2249  153 153    21    50.0 %   2249   14.3 %
105 LarsenVB-407           : 2244   45  35   291    40.9 %   2308    6.2 %
106 Amy                    : 2242   42  22   551    31.2 %   2379    6.2 %
107 Amyan                  : 2241   66  33   240    28.7 %   2399    6.7 %
108 Mustang-172            : 2240   68  56   121    41.7 %   2298    7.4 %
109 Gromit3                : 2230   44  34   302    40.2 %   2299    8.3 %
110 Betsy                  : 2226  172 172    20    50.0 %   2226    0.0 %
111 SSEchess-202           : 2226   69  57   116    40.5 %   2293   10.3 %
112 EnginMax-260           : 2222   53  35   272    38.4 %   2303    0.4 %
113 Chessterfield-15a      : 2215   49  34   289    37.5 %   2304    6.6 %
114 Cilian-413             : 2212   42  34   279    37.3 %   2303   19.4 %
115 MAD-005                : 2209   51  33   285    36.5 %   2305    5.6 %
116 Blikskottel 0.5        : 2199  192 149    20    37.5 %   2287    5.0 %
117 Gromit2                : 2196   53  32   304    35.4 %   2300    1.6 %
118 FranWB-090             : 2191   53  32   287    34.3 %   2303    5.9 %
119 FRANWB-081             : 2189   54  32   283    33.4 %   2309    6.0 %
120 LarsenVB-313           : 2182   53  32   285    32.6 %   2308    8.4 %
121 Ant-416                : 2165   60  31   283    30.9 %   2304    3.2 %
122 MSCP                   : 2157  160 142    22    38.6 %   2238   13.6 %
123 Fortress-162           : 2153   62  30   284    29.6 %   2303    3.5 %
124 31337                  : 2152   72  22   417    18.7 %   2407    4.8 %
125 NeroWB                 : 2137  168 167    20    47.5 %   2155    5.0 %
126 Pierre                 : 2131  182 124    25    34.0 %   2246    4.0 %
127 StAndersen             : 2126  182 124    25    34.0 %   2241    4.0 %
128 Grizzly                : 2125  192 142    21    35.7 %   2227    4.8 %
129 TCBishop-4601          : 2123  146  69    59    27.1 %   2294    0.0 %
130 Golem01                : 2119   68  28   298    25.8 %   2302    3.4 %
131 Ozwald-043             : 2106  110  44   125    24.4 %   2303    0.8 %
132 NeroWB-5               : 2096  115  44   122    23.4 %   2303    0.8 %
133 Knightx-154            : 2085   83  27   292    21.4 %   2311    0.3 %
134 Amy-07                 : 2079   68  23   400    20.9 %   2310    4.8 %
135 InmiChess3             : 2033   95  25   305    17.5 %   2302    0.3 %
136 Chad's Chess V015      : 2031  107  31   214    18.0 %   2294    1.4 %
137 Zephyr-061             : 2027  105  32   203    18.7 %   2282    2.0 %
138 Tamerlane-01           : 1998  153  41   119    15.5 %   2292    0.8 %
139 ChadChess-015          : 1994  203  54    70    13.6 %   2315    1.4 %
140 Noonian-29             : 1975  159  40   121    14.0 %   2290    1.7 %
141 Betsy-526              : 1973  127  26   258    13.2 %   2300    0.0 %
142 VCTAO44                : 1969  164  41   116    14.7 %   2275    0.0 %
143 GNUChess-414           : 1966  126  25   281    12.5 %   2305    0.7 %
144 Grizzly-125            : 1964  123  25   276    12.3 %   2305    2.2 %
145 Rikus                  : 1957  330 111    22    13.6 %   2278    0.0 %
146 MSCP-011               : 1857  241  37   122     7.4 %   2297    0.0 %
147 aldebaran              : 1836    0   0   100     0.0 %   2436    0.0 %
148 Aldebaran-070          : 1720    0   0    39     0.0 %   2320    0.0 %
149 Faile-06               : 1720    0   0   133     0.0 %   2320    0.0 %

The speed of the game is directly proportional to the garbage introduced.
The games I posted were but a tiny sampling of the nonesense that is erupted
when you shrink the clock.

IMO-YMMV



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