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Subject: Re: Deep Blue Jr.

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 05:20:03 07/20/02

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On July 20, 2002 at 07:46:09, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On July 20, 2002 at 06:59:50, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On July 20, 2002 at 06:43:44, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On July 20, 2002 at 02:39:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>It is possible that they could get 2 productive changes:
>>>>
>>>>1)Add null move pruning
>>>>2)Not use the singular extensions.
>>>>
>>>>It is possible that 2 is not productive without 1 and
>>>>if they did not start by testing 2, they got the wrong conclusions.
>>>>
>>>>Did somebody try to test crafty with their algorithm
>>>>(no null move pruning and singular extensions)?
>>>>
>>>>I guess that it is going to be clearly weaker than
>>>>the Crafty of today at 120/40 time control.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>I think IBM was playing it safe.
>>>They could have taken more chances, adding nullmove probably would have made it
>>>even stronger, but imagine the embarrasment for them if it failed to see a
>>>simple combination like a mate in 1 :)
>>
>>I do not see how you can miss a mate in 1 with null move.
>>You can miss mate in 2 but not mate in 1.
>
>All right, bad example, the zugzwang is better :)
>
>>It is also possible to do a verification search to reduced depth
>>only to see that you do not miss a big zunzwang.
>
>Sure, but given the complexity of their project, perhaps they just tried to keep
>some things simple.
>
>>The problem here is that changing the alpha and the beta value
>>can give you wrong information in the history tables and
>>in the killer moves so I may need to do a special search to
>>reduced depth without updating the killer move and the
>>history tables.
>>
>>Uri
>
>You've lost me there, the history table I use only for move ordering, and the
>killers, well I try them if they are valid moves, but alpha-beta values?
>
>-S.

My idea about zunzwang detection was to use different value of
beta in the search that verify zunzwang because
I care only about big zunzwangs and not about zunzwangs of 0.1 pawns.

I found that it does movei slower for some reason and it
is not the nodes that it searches to verify zunzwangs that
are less than 1% of the nodes.

I guess that the problem is some change in the tables that
are updated by the search and these tables include killer moves
and history tables.

I do not know if this is the problem but I decided that
if detecting zunzwangs without being slower by more than 1%
is not trivial thing to do then I am not going to do it today.

Uri



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