Author: Chessfun
Date: 14:10:20 07/24/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 24, 2002 at 14:43:18, Rajen Gupta wrote: >On July 24, 2002 at 14:25:26, Joachim Rang wrote: > >>On July 24, 2002 at 13:41:23, Rajen Gupta wrote: >> >>>On July 24, 2002 at 13:06:11, Timothy J. Frohlick wrote: >>> >>>>Rajen, >>>> >>>>If both programs were given the same computers with ponder-on there would be >>>>essentially no change in performance relatively. >>> >>>this is the question that i was asking ie relative performance wih respect to >>>each other. i entirely agree that the quality of moves would be certainly better >>>for each programme when played on 2 computers with ponder on. i just wondered >>>whether that would affect relative ratings. i have read some postings where it >>>was suggested-bob hyatt i think once mentioned that crafty should alway be >>>tested against other programs using 2 computers with ponder on. he even stated >>>that playing crafty on a single machine against other programs with ponder off >>>was meaningless as that disproportionately reduced the strength of crafty! >>> >>>i wonder if tht is true as i feel that the relative ratings should be >>>approximately the same keeping in mind the usual statistical error. >>> >>>maybe sarah can tell me as she has played a lot of such matches. >>> >>>rajen >>> >>>>The moves would probably be better. The only way to determine any difference in performance is to play >>>>Program A with ponder-on against itself on an identical computer with >>>>ponder-off. I would think that a 30 to 75 ELO point improvement would be seen >>>>on the program running with ponder-on since it would be thinking almost twice as >>>>long. >> >> >>I don't think so: The rate of right "ponder-guesses" is not often above 50 %, so >>you gain only 50 % time benefit. >> >>>> >>>>The more expensive way of doing this would be to pay a 2600 level GM to play >>>>games against your program with both on/off ponder. >>>> >>>>Tim Frohlick >>>> >>>>PS I think that Sarah Bird may have done this experiment. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On July 24, 2002 at 12:28:21, Rajen Gupta wrote: >>>> >>>>>would there be a significant difference in overall results, if 2 programmes were >>>>>to play against one another on 2 computers with ponder on as opposed to playing >>>>>the same programmes, engine vs engine with similar time controls n a single >>>>>processor computer? >>>>> >>>>>and are there any programmes which do significantly better, ratings wise, when >>>>>played with ponder on vs ponder off? >>>>> >>>>>rajen >> >>There is an experiment with 4 Engines, but with insufficient games. >>Unfortunately it is only in german, nevertheless I will post the URL: >> >>http://www.pcschach.de/Experimente/Experiment3/experiment3.html >> >>According to the results it seems, that CT 14 suffers most from ponder=off and >>Deep Fritz gains most. > >i saw that: but the results seemed to be the othr way round. as you said, >insufficient games but nevertheless, it does throw some light on the question. > >thanks > >rajen As I recall Volker Pittlik, who I believe moderates the Winboard forum once ran a long series of games and found the effect on/off minimal. I looked for the page but couldn't find it. Sarah.
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