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Subject: Re: Internal Iterative Deepening

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:13:24 07/25/02

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On July 25, 2002 at 20:45:48, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On July 25, 2002 at 16:58:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 25, 2002 at 14:06:39, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>>>>IID is not a huge thing.  It mainly helps where you fail high but can't get
>>>>>>a real score so that the next iteration, you end up with no hash moves for
>>>>>>the PV search...  IID will supply good moves.
>>>>>
>>>>>All you get is a reasonable move from a D-2 search. Why not store the original
>>>>>hashmove in stead?
>>>>
>>>>Where would you get it from?  I use the fact that there is no hash move
>>>>for a PV node to trigger the IID search...
>>>
>>>>>So when you normally store a UPPER score, in stead of saving
>>>>>no move at all, you save the original hashmove? I don't see why IID would
>>>>>provide a better move than that...
>>>>
>>>>Because at the _next_ ply in the tree, you have no move because it is a
>>>>fail low position...
>>>
>>>I don't understand. In case of a fail-low position I store the *original*
>>>hashmove which was a bestmove. So, I never am without hashmove.
>>
>>
>>You _must_ be without one at times.  How can you store the "original"
>>best move is there is no hash entry there at all?
>>
>>I'll bet that if you count the number of times you call hash probe, and
>>the number of times you don't get a "hit", the difference will be extremely
>>high.  And in _each_ of those misses, you don't get any kind of hash move
>>at all.  Which is where IID helps.
>
>I have done that. As far as I know it only happens in the last 1-2 plies. Maybe
>it will worsen somewhat if the hashtable is full.
>
>Bas.


I think we are somehow talking about different things.  IE what happens when
you change your mind at the root?  (fail high).  That means that at ply=2,
for that move, you have no best move.  It might be that this move at ply 1
has _never_ been interesting so that it has never been stored into the
table.  Now it has failed high, which means either the move at ply-2 is
stale (because you saved it as you mentioned, and it might be a bad move since
the score is suddenly jumping up) or there is no hash position at all because
it was overwritten.

I notice the biggest gain in those tactical positions where I fail high at ply
N, but can't get a good score (the re-search fails low).  At the next iteration
I have _nothing_ to use for ordering and IID saves the bacon there...

Not common.  But important when it happens by a large factor.



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