Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 18:26:02 07/28/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 28, 2002 at 21:03:38, Christophe Theron wrote: >On July 28, 2002 at 12:59:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On July 28, 2002 at 10:00:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On July 27, 2002 at 23:14:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On July 27, 2002 at 19:38:20, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 23:14:14, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 26, 2002 at 15:08:26, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Detlev Pordzik again. After the first complaint the moderators did not even >>>>>>>answer me. So this is the consequence. Pordzik thinks that he had the right to >>>>>>>violate the charta of CCC which says that personal attacks are forbidden. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>There have been _zero_ complaints. At least _I_ have received no complaints. >>>>>>I assume the other two moderators have not either since we _all_ get the >>>>>>complaints sent to us individually. >>>>> >>>>>Bob, >>>>> >>>>>if you insist, I can well publish the two texts CCC sent me in reaction to the >>>>>emails I sent to you (the moderators). Because when you send such a message >>>>>there is automatic message with text and the details of the time and so on. >>>>> >>>>>I quoted the numbers of the particular messages from "Pordzik" and simply >>>>>pointed out why his messages were abusive in the light of the charta of CCC. >>>>> >>>>>Take e.g. the second complaint. There he states in his message that he couldn't >>>>>find any ranking place for me whatsoever. He then concludes that therefore my >>>>>contributions here are (I sum up his view) worthless. This is only a very short >>>>>summary. But - since I do not teach chess theory here, there is absolutely no >>>>>sense in such a message. The only reason for such a message is the personal >>>>>attack and so the abuse of the charta here that forbids personal attacks. >>>> >>>>Fell free to post them or email them to me. I did not receive them unless >>>>I was sedated without my knowledge... >>> >>>The evidence is right below here in the posting, actually it was already there >>>_before_ you wrote the little joke above. A joke because - as you described - >>>all three moderators get copies of such emails. Since I got the affirmation back >>>from your server it's clear that you should have them too - at least unless you >>>were sedated, of course without your knowledge... But in my case three >>>moderators should have been sedated without their knowledge, and this two times >>>in the last couple of days. Looks spooky somehow. I'm very worried about you >>>because if it's epidemic, then it's already world-wide since Christophe is miles >>>away from the USA. Of course there could be a different solution. >> >> >>I have not received _any_ moderator email complaints in the past couple of >>weeks? Any other moderator getting these from Rolf? >> >>I am getting daily moderator email from ICC about new folks signing up, >>but the only things I remember recently were a few users asking us to remove >>things they had posted themselves, or a couple of other complaints that are >>not Rolf-related... >> >>Any moderator recall anything different? > > > >I confirm that I have not received Rolf's messages. > >Rolf, just send them again. It seems that they have been lost in cyberspace, >together with the dozens emails of mine that get lost each month in the same >way. > >Email is NOT reliable. Thank you. Let me tell you three things. 1. I have asked pavel in CTF who has mentioned that the _normal_ email moderator acess here and in ctf was down! so he told me to write to something like icd@ etc. For the reasons below I think that this is not necessary. Bt I could also sent the two mails to your email address. But also this is not necessary. 2. Just to prevent that the fact that I write email complaint against a certain Detlev Pordzik (you will still find the concerning posting of this man here in the listing) I do NOT want to question the moderators politics into doubt. I complain about Pordzik, but if you the moderators will say that all is ok, that there is nothing insulting, that then I would rest the case. Because then it's your responsibility. Of course I think that he has deeply insulted me. 3. Now to the argument why a new message from me is not necessary. Here below at the end of the whole posting you can find the two emails I wrote to you three. I got the text of the quoting back. I deleted a special paragraphe and the numbers. But in this you still can find the particular postings numbers of Pordzik. There are two numbers I complained about. When you read the postings you will understand why I complained. In the first he accused me of being for CSS (that was the mentioned German NG) to be "steered underground assassinate", this is sort of mole. In the second he tried to argue that he didn't find any Elo number entry whatsoever for me so that I could not be believable in chess. But this would be well known since rgcc. Now the point is that both attacks are personal abuses. Hence forbidden by the charta of CCC. I already wrote to Bob, that if you stated that this was NOT abusive that then I would let rest the cases. But I know for sure that the steered underground assassinate is character assassination of the worst. So I hope that it will not cost you too much time and energy to quickly judge the two postings with no CC content from Pordzik. I have to thank you Rolf Tueschen > > > > Christophe > > > > >>>We still have the minor important question if in CCC it should be allowed to >>>commit character assassination by calling a member (and then if the member is >>>me) "steered underground assasinate". I agree that for the moment the question >>>of the where abouts of the emails must have absolute priority for you. Until >>>then you can't have any informations concerning the content of the two emails - >>>unfortunately. >>> >>>Rolf Tueschen >>> >> >> >>I think it is a testament to the moderators past and present that you are >>allowed to post here, _period_ after your nonsense in r.g.c.c... I suggest >>that you simply stop your nonsense here and post reasonable stuff. If you >>start to demand moderation policy changes, it is very possible that _you_ >>will be the first recipient of those changes... >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Everybody might have personal opinions about anyone but the intensiously >>>>>directed personal attack is by definition insultive and forbidden here. >>>>> >>>>>I want to claim for me the right that also in my case the charta of CCC should >>>>>be respected. >>>>> >>>>>If the mentioned author would have brought forward any reasonable arguments why >>>>>I was wrong in a message I would surely have responded him. >>>>> >>>>>Let me shortly lead your attention on his first insultive message. There he >>>>>wrote expressis verbis the following that this chap or whatever, from the >>>>>_context_ it's absolutely clear that he meant me, that I were a (quote) "steered >>>>>underground assassinate" in some German newsgroups etc. pp. This is absolute >>>>>fantasy. Therefore and also because this has nothing to do with computerchess >>>>>and surely not this forum, it is abusive and character assassination. Because >>>>>the job of a mole or whatever is not directly what is estimated as honorable >>>>>profession. But since it is absolutely false in my case, it is character >>>>>assassination. And this here right in the middle of this forum, where personal >>>>>attacks already are forbidden. >>>>> >>>>>Beyond many differences which we two might have, I think, we do both believe in >>>>>th freedom of speech. But in the Pordzik case the mentioned author has _not_ >>>>>taken part in the debates here where I was involved. Then suddenly he writes >>>>>such insults. Alone from that angle it must be clear that he has a personal axe >>>>>to grind. But, the hype is, that he doesn't want to discuss his insults, but he >>>>>is proud to write against me that his sole intention is (suddenly! - because >>>>>earlier this year he invited me repeatedly to write in his own forum and he >>>>>telephoned with me in hour-long chats) to prevent that I could write my >>>>>opinions. Beyond all our differences I see no reason at all that you should be >>>>>interested in such intentions. Because, I might be "lame" in my thought process, >>>>>I might be a bad English writer, but you wouldn't assume that my opinions had no >>>>>content, when I based my opinions and more so questions on pure science and >>>>>logic, in the SSDF or DB2 threads. The mentioned author however has repeatedly >>>>>informed me that any form of critic is in his view unwanted and simply not >>>>>clever. And also negative for mutual relationships. Of course such a view is >>>>>reasonable in business. But here we do not have just business I think. Here we >>>>>can discuss on the base of science and logic. >>>>> >>>>>I learned a lot from POPPER and other scientists of science. Progress is always >>>>>a consequence of "conjectures" and "refutations". This has no personal nor >>>>>abusive content whatsoever. >>>>> >>>>>Of course friendship is of highest value. But the negative side is when >>>>>friendship is often misinterpreted as partizanship. I did never belong to a side >>>>>or certain interests. I'm independant. And therefore such character >>>>>assassinations are very evil. In truth I did never work for someone against >>>>>someone else. POPPER described what happens with 'closed' systems of thought. >>>>> >>>>>Will you deny me here the right of protection against such unfounded, ugly, >>>>>personal attacks in the Pordzik-style? "Steered underground assassinative"? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>> >>>>>Here are the texts I got from CCC for my complaints I sent to moderators, I made >>>>>unreadable certain parts because this was email: >>>>> >>>>>The following message has been sent to ccc@icdchess.com: >>>>>From: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>Subject: CCC Moderator E-mail >>>>> >>>>>Reply-to: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>[ name: ] Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ email: ] rtueschen@t-online.de >>>>>[ body: ] >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>in the message 242 711 Detlev Pordzik again wrote completely off-topic only >>>>>about me. This is called ad hominem. I beg you to do something against such >>>>>personal attacks because they are forbidden after the charta of CCC. >>>>> >>>>>Thank you >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ user: ] xxxxxx >>>>>--- >>>>>This message was sent to you by xxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>on Fri Jul 26 19:04:42 2002 (GMT). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The following message has been sent to ccc@icdchess.com: >>>>>From: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>Subject: CCC Moderator E-mail >>>>> >>>>>Reply-to: rtueschen@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) >>>>>[ name: ] Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ email: ] rtueschen@t-online.de >>>>>[ body: ] >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>>The posting 242364 from Detlev Pordzik contains clearly put insults and >>>>>character assassination. [xxxxxxx snipped two paragraphes for personal reasons >>>>>since this was email!] >>>>> >>>>>I hereby ask you to delete the posting nr. 242364 and tell Detlef to stop the >>>>>nonsense. >>>>> >>>>>If you should have any questions to me please contact me, I'm willing to solve >>>>>the conflict. I hope that you won't let here in CCC poeple insulted. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks to anyone here who reads this as moderator. >>>>> >>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>[ user: ] xxxxx >>>>>--- >>>>>This message was sent to you by xxxxxxxx >>>>>on Wed Jul 24 18:35:21 2002 (GMT).
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