Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:56:00 07/29/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 29, 2002 at 08:25:57, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On July 28, 2002 at 21:37:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >Bob, > >ICC isn't serious. In fact i'm using a stupid book there and stupid >old versions of DIEP. Then your testing methodology is even worse than I thought. IE I _always_ test the latest version of my program, because there is no sense in testing _old_ versions that have bugs. They have _already_ been fixed. As far as the book goes, so what? We are _not_ talking about book issues here, but about _tactics_. They occur _after_ leaving the book... > >It is the world champs which count. If you don't show up there, >there is no reason to do such statements even. Actually, I have showed up at _far_ more computer chess events than you have even seen, much less participated in. So that statement doesn't mean _anything_ to me at all... > >>On July 28, 2002 at 14:38:25, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On July 28, 2002 at 12:54:10, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>DIEP - Crafty >>>world champs 2000: >> >>You base a _lot_ on one game. I can produce hundreds you have lost on >>ICC. So my question stands... >> >> >>> >>>please note that diep in 2000 didn't have much extensions. just >>>checks a little, this was one of those tactical games where crafty >>>makes a mistake which diep would never make. out of book it plays O-O >>>castling straight into the mate, instead of the forced move h5. >> >>Vincent, want me to post _several_ games where Diep castled right into >>an attack? I have seen _several_... >> >> >> DIEP 2000 >>>also finds the move h5 *without* extensions. I remember crafty simply >>>didn't in 2000. While crafty still finds itself up a few pawns, i'm >>>already at a positive score: >>> >>>e2-e4 (2:00:00,2:00:00) book >>>c7-c5 (2:00:00,1:59:19) >>>g1-f3 (2:00:00,1:59:19) book >>>d7-d6 (2:00:00,1:59:06) >>>d2-d4 (2:00:00,1:59:06) book >>>c5xd4 (2:00:00,1:58:48) >>>f3xd4 (1:59:59,1:58:48) book >>>g8-f6 (1:59:59,1:58:21) >>>b1-c3 (1:59:59,1:58:21) book >>>a7-a6 (1:59:59,1:58:02) >>>c1-g5 (1:59:59,1:58:02) book >>>e7-e6 (1:59:59,1:57:44) >>>f2-f4 (1:59:59,1:57:44) book >>>d8-b6 (1:59:59,1:57:29) >>>d1-d2 (1:59:59,1:57:29) book >>>b6xb2 (1:59:59,1:57:16) >>>a1-b1 (1:59:59,1:57:16) book >>>b2-a3 (1:59:59,1:56:53) >>>f4-f5 (1:59:59,1:56:53) book >>>b8-c6 (1:59:59,1:56:28) >>>f5xe6 (1:59:59,1:56:28) book >>>f7xe6 (1:59:59,1:55:59) >>>d4xc6 (1:59:59,1:55:59) book >>>b7xc6 (1:59:59,1:55:43) >>>e4-e5 (1:59:59,1:55:43) book >>>d6xe5 (1:59:59,1:51:36) >>>g5xf6 (1:59:59,1:51:36) book >>>g7xf6 (1:59:59,1:50:43) >>>c3-e4 (1:59:59,1:50:43) book >>>f8-e7 (1:59:59,1:46:38) >>>f1-e2 (1:59:59,1:46:38) book >>>O-O (1:59:59,1:43:49) >>>b1-b3 (1:55:39,1:43:49) -1.40 12 10410289 02:08 5131791 (0) 11 -1.40 Rb1-b3 >>>Qa3xa2 Rb3-g3 Kg8-h8 O-O Rf8-f7 Qd2-h6 Bc8-b7 Be2-h5 Be7-f8 Ne4-d6 Rf7-c7 Qh6xf6 >>>Bf8-g7 >>>a3xa2 (1:55:39,1:40:02) >>>O-O (1:55:12,1:40:02) -0.95 12 10069052 03:13 7721131 (0) 12 -0.94 O-O >>>Kg8-h8 Qd2-h6 Rf8-f7 Rb3-g3 Bc8-d7 Be2-h5 Ra8-f8 Bh5xf7 Rf8xf7 >>>g8-h8 (1:55:12,1:35:22) >>>d2-h6 (1:55:12,1:35:22) -0.02 12 11084226 04:17 10175948 (0) 12 -0.02 >>>Qd2-h6 Rf8-f7 Rb3-g3 Ra8-a7 Be2-h5 Qa2-c4 Qh6-e3 Be7-f8 Bh5xf7 Ra7xf7 Ne4-g5 >>>Rf7-b7 Rf1xf6 >>>f8-f7 (1:55:12,1:31:05) >>>b3-g3 (1:55:10,1:31:05) 0.08 12 10434337 00:44 1857642 (0) 11 0.08 Rb3-g3 >>>Ra8-a7 Be2-h5 Qa2-c4 Bh5xf7 Be7-c5 Ne4xc5 Qc4xc5 Qh6-e3 Qc5xe3 Rg3xe3 Ra7xf7 >>>Re3xe5 >>>a8-a7 (1:55:10,1:30:13) >>>g1-h1 (1:51:41,1:30:13) 1.89 12 10632112 00:30 3252994 (0) 11 1.88 Kg1-h1 >>>Qa2xc2 Be2-h5 Be7-f8 Bh5xf7 Ra7xf7 Qh6-h5 Rf7-e7 Ne4-d6 Bf8-g7 Nd6xc8 >>>a2xc2 (1:51:41,1:26:00) >>>h6-h5 (1:51:36,1:26:00) 4.56 12 10335746 03:18 8038735 (0) 12 4.55 Qh6-h5 >>>Rf7-f8 Be2-d3 Qc2xd3 Rg3xd3 f6-f5 Rd3-h3 Be7-d8 Ne4-d6 Bd8-f6 Qh5-h6 Ra7-f7 >>>Nd6xf7 Rf8xf7 >>>e7-f8 (1:51:36,1:20:27) >>>e2-d3 (1:47:16,1:20:27) 9.73 12 10345462 03:11 7465878 (0) 11 9.73 Be2-d3 >>>Qc2-c3 Ne4xc3 f6-f5 Nc3-e4 a6-a5 Ne4-g5 Rf7-e7 Ng5xh7 Re7xh7 Qh5-g6 >>>c2-c3 (1:47:16,1:17:54) >>>e4xc3 (1:45:35,1:17:54) 10.71 13 11309369 01:03 3009384 (0) 12 10.71 Ne4xc3 >>>f6-f5 Nc3-e4 a6-a5 Ne4-g5 Rf7-e7 Ng5xh7 Re7xh7 Qh5-e8 Ra7-f7 Qe8xc8 e5-e4 >>>f6-f5 (1:45:35,1:08:48) >>>f1-d1 (1:45:35,1:08:48) 14.34 14 25902144 08:35 24433268 (0) 14 14.34 >>>Rf1-d1 Rf7-f6 Qh5-g5 Rf6-g6 Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6 >>>e5-e4 Rd1-d6 Rf6-f7 >>>f7-f6 (1:45:35,1:06:55) >>>h5-g5 (1:43:10,1:06:55) 14.80 14 12995655 00:07 6139846 (0) 14 14.79 Qh5-g5 >>>Rf6-g6 Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6 c6-c5 Nc3-a4 Rf6-h6 >>>Kh1-g1 Rh6-f6 Na4xc5 >>>f6-g6 (1:43:10,1:01:45) >>>g5-d8 (1:43:10,1:01:45) 15.62 15 14419477 04:12 11490210 (0) 14 15.61 >>>Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6 e5-e4 Rd1-d7 c6-c5 Nc3-a4 Rf6-h6 >>>Kh1-g1 Rh6-f6 Na4xc5 >>>a7-f7 (1:43:10,0:58:06) >>>g3xg6 (1:38:51,0:58:06) 18.97 15 12950942 02:51 8633112 (0) 14 18.97 Rg3xg6 >>>h7xg6 Qd8xc8 Kh8-g7 Bd3-c4 Bf8-b4 Qc8xe6 Rf7-e7 Qe6-g8 Kg7-h6 Qg8-f8 Re7-g7 >>>Qf8xb4 Kh6-h7 Bc4xa6 >>>h7xg6 (1:38:51,0:56:03) >>>d8xc8 (1:36:42,0:56:03) 20.57 14 12149319 01:29 4515394 (0) 13 20.56 Qd8xc8 >>>Kh8-h7 Bd3-c4 Bf8-e7 Bc4xe6 Rf7-g7 Rd1-d3 Be7-g5 Rd3-h3 Bg5-h6 Qc8-d8 Rg7-f7 >>>Be6xf7 >>>h8-h7 (1:24:00,0:46:53) >>>d3-c4 (1:24:00,0:46:53) 26.90 13 33172910 04:04 10950485 (0) 12 26.90 >>>Bd3-c4 Bf8-g7 Qc8xe6 Rf7-f6 Qe6-g8 Kh7-h6 Rd1-d7 Kh6-g5 Qg8xg7 c6-c5 h2-h4 >>>Kg5xh4 Qg7xf6 >>> >>> >>> >>>>On July 27, 2002 at 20:36:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 07:50:19, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>Actually everyone wonders for years already why crafty >>>>>is tactical so weak. It won't be long before you also >>>>>beat it in time to find combi's sooner. >>>> >>>>If it is so "tactically weak" why can't you or your program blow it >>>>off the board in games??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 07:14:19, Mike Byrne wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>><snipped> >>>>>>> singular extension..................0.75 >>>>>> >>>>>>Does crafty use singular extensions? >>>>>> >>>>>>It seems not to be very important here because >>>>>>movei without singular extensions seems to solve it faster >>>>>>(if you consider the fact that my p850 is an inferior hardware) >>>>>>and at smaller depth. >>>>>> >>>>>>Movei needs slightly more than a minute with p850(128 Mbytes hash) >>>>>>but Crafty17.14 on the same hardware needs almost 3 minutes and >>>>>>remember that movei does not use hash tables in an efficient way. >>>>>> >>>>>>[D]r6r/k4pp1/pq2p2p/1p1n4/3N3P/1R6/PPP1QPP1/2KR4 w - - 0 1 >>>>>> >>>>>>9 120 6585 8133249 d4b5 >>>>>>9 242 7508 9423216 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6d6 d1d4 d5c3 b5a5 a7b7 b2c3 d6d4 e2f3 b7b6 >>>>>>c3d4 a8a5 f3f7 a5a2 f7g7 >>>>>>9 242 7755 9764522 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6d6 d1d4 d5c3 b5a5 a7b7 b2c3 d6d4 e2f3 b7b6 >>>>>>c3d4 a8a5 f3f7 a5a2 f7g7 >>>>>>10 296 9238 11782740 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 a6b6 >>>>>>e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 >>>>>>10 296 9870 12649414 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 a6b6 >>>>>>e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 >>>>>>11 360 17417 23221197 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 >>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 h8f8 d5d4 a7b7 d4g7 >>>>>>11 360 18740 24983892 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 >>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 h8f8 d5d4 a7b7 d4g7 >>>>>>12 358 26617 35920723 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 >>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6b5 d6d5 b5b6 d5f7 a8a7 >>>>>>12 358 30895 41946016 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 >>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6b5 d6d5 b5b6 d5f7 a8a7 >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri
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