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Subject: Re: Topalov,V (2745) - Bareev,E (2726) Nice Combination!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:56:00 07/29/02

Go up one level in this thread


On July 29, 2002 at 08:25:57, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On July 28, 2002 at 21:37:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>ICC isn't serious. In fact i'm using a stupid book there and stupid
>old versions of DIEP.

Then your testing methodology is even worse than I thought.  IE I _always_
test the latest version of my program, because there  is no sense in testing
_old_ versions that have bugs.  They have _already_ been fixed.

As far as the book goes, so what?  We are _not_ talking about book issues
here, but about _tactics_.  They occur _after_ leaving the book...




>
>It is the world champs which count. If you don't show up there,
>there is no reason to do such statements even.



Actually, I have showed up at _far_ more computer chess events than you have
even seen, much less participated in.  So that statement doesn't mean _anything_
to me at all...



>
>>On July 28, 2002 at 14:38:25, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On July 28, 2002 at 12:54:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>DIEP - Crafty
>>>world champs 2000:
>>
>>You base a _lot_ on one game.  I can produce hundreds you have lost on
>>ICC.  So my question stands...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>please note that diep in 2000 didn't have much extensions. just
>>>checks a little, this was one of those tactical games where crafty
>>>makes a mistake which diep would never make. out of book it plays O-O
>>>castling straight into the mate, instead of the forced move h5.
>>
>>Vincent, want me to post _several_ games where Diep castled right into
>>an attack?  I have seen _several_...
>>
>>
>> DIEP 2000
>>>also finds the move h5 *without* extensions. I remember crafty simply
>>>didn't in 2000. While crafty still finds itself up a few pawns, i'm
>>>already at a positive score:
>>>
>>>e2-e4     (2:00:00,2:00:00)  book
>>>c7-c5     (2:00:00,1:59:19)
>>>g1-f3     (2:00:00,1:59:19)  book
>>>d7-d6     (2:00:00,1:59:06)
>>>d2-d4     (2:00:00,1:59:06)  book
>>>c5xd4     (2:00:00,1:58:48)
>>>f3xd4     (1:59:59,1:58:48)  book
>>>g8-f6     (1:59:59,1:58:21)
>>>b1-c3     (1:59:59,1:58:21)  book
>>>a7-a6     (1:59:59,1:58:02)
>>>c1-g5     (1:59:59,1:58:02)  book
>>>e7-e6     (1:59:59,1:57:44)
>>>f2-f4     (1:59:59,1:57:44)  book
>>>d8-b6     (1:59:59,1:57:29)
>>>d1-d2     (1:59:59,1:57:29)  book
>>>b6xb2     (1:59:59,1:57:16)
>>>a1-b1     (1:59:59,1:57:16)  book
>>>b2-a3     (1:59:59,1:56:53)
>>>f4-f5     (1:59:59,1:56:53)  book
>>>b8-c6     (1:59:59,1:56:28)
>>>f5xe6     (1:59:59,1:56:28)  book
>>>f7xe6     (1:59:59,1:55:59)
>>>d4xc6     (1:59:59,1:55:59)  book
>>>b7xc6     (1:59:59,1:55:43)
>>>e4-e5     (1:59:59,1:55:43)  book
>>>d6xe5     (1:59:59,1:51:36)
>>>g5xf6     (1:59:59,1:51:36)  book
>>>g7xf6     (1:59:59,1:50:43)
>>>c3-e4     (1:59:59,1:50:43)  book
>>>f8-e7     (1:59:59,1:46:38)
>>>f1-e2     (1:59:59,1:46:38)  book
>>>O-O       (1:59:59,1:43:49)
>>>b1-b3     (1:55:39,1:43:49)  -1.40 12 10410289 02:08 5131791 (0) 11 -1.40 Rb1-b3
>>>Qa3xa2 Rb3-g3 Kg8-h8 O-O Rf8-f7 Qd2-h6 Bc8-b7 Be2-h5 Be7-f8 Ne4-d6 Rf7-c7 Qh6xf6
>>>Bf8-g7
>>>a3xa2     (1:55:39,1:40:02)
>>>O-O       (1:55:12,1:40:02)  -0.95 12 10069052 03:13 7721131 (0) 12 -0.94 O-O
>>>Kg8-h8 Qd2-h6 Rf8-f7 Rb3-g3 Bc8-d7 Be2-h5 Ra8-f8 Bh5xf7 Rf8xf7
>>>g8-h8     (1:55:12,1:35:22)
>>>d2-h6     (1:55:12,1:35:22)  -0.02 12 11084226 04:17 10175948 (0) 12 -0.02
>>>Qd2-h6 Rf8-f7 Rb3-g3 Ra8-a7 Be2-h5 Qa2-c4 Qh6-e3 Be7-f8 Bh5xf7 Ra7xf7 Ne4-g5
>>>Rf7-b7 Rf1xf6
>>>f8-f7     (1:55:12,1:31:05)
>>>b3-g3     (1:55:10,1:31:05)  0.08 12 10434337 00:44 1857642 (0) 11 0.08 Rb3-g3
>>>Ra8-a7 Be2-h5 Qa2-c4 Bh5xf7 Be7-c5 Ne4xc5 Qc4xc5 Qh6-e3 Qc5xe3 Rg3xe3 Ra7xf7
>>>Re3xe5
>>>a8-a7     (1:55:10,1:30:13)
>>>g1-h1     (1:51:41,1:30:13)  1.89 12 10632112 00:30 3252994 (0) 11 1.88 Kg1-h1
>>>Qa2xc2 Be2-h5 Be7-f8 Bh5xf7 Ra7xf7 Qh6-h5 Rf7-e7 Ne4-d6 Bf8-g7 Nd6xc8
>>>a2xc2     (1:51:41,1:26:00)
>>>h6-h5     (1:51:36,1:26:00)  4.56 12 10335746 03:18 8038735 (0) 12 4.55 Qh6-h5
>>>Rf7-f8 Be2-d3 Qc2xd3 Rg3xd3 f6-f5 Rd3-h3 Be7-d8 Ne4-d6 Bd8-f6 Qh5-h6 Ra7-f7
>>>Nd6xf7 Rf8xf7
>>>e7-f8     (1:51:36,1:20:27)
>>>e2-d3     (1:47:16,1:20:27)  9.73 12 10345462 03:11 7465878 (0) 11 9.73 Be2-d3
>>>Qc2-c3 Ne4xc3 f6-f5 Nc3-e4 a6-a5 Ne4-g5 Rf7-e7 Ng5xh7 Re7xh7 Qh5-g6
>>>c2-c3     (1:47:16,1:17:54)
>>>e4xc3     (1:45:35,1:17:54)  10.71 13 11309369 01:03 3009384 (0) 12 10.71 Ne4xc3
>>>f6-f5 Nc3-e4 a6-a5 Ne4-g5 Rf7-e7 Ng5xh7 Re7xh7 Qh5-e8 Ra7-f7 Qe8xc8 e5-e4
>>>f6-f5     (1:45:35,1:08:48)
>>>f1-d1     (1:45:35,1:08:48)  14.34 14 25902144 08:35 24433268 (0) 14 14.34
>>>Rf1-d1 Rf7-f6 Qh5-g5 Rf6-g6 Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6
>>>e5-e4 Rd1-d6 Rf6-f7
>>>f7-f6     (1:45:35,1:06:55)
>>>h5-g5     (1:43:10,1:06:55)  14.80 14 12995655 00:07 6139846 (0) 14 14.79 Qh5-g5
>>>Rf6-g6 Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6 c6-c5 Nc3-a4 Rf6-h6
>>>Kh1-g1 Rh6-f6 Na4xc5
>>>f6-g6     (1:43:10,1:01:45)
>>>g5-d8     (1:43:10,1:01:45)  15.62 15 14419477 04:12 11490210 (0) 14 15.61
>>>Qg5-d8 Rg6xg3 h2xg3 Ra7-f7 Qd8xc8 Rf7-f6 Bd3xa6 e5-e4 Rd1-d7 c6-c5 Nc3-a4 Rf6-h6
>>>Kh1-g1 Rh6-f6 Na4xc5
>>>a7-f7     (1:43:10,0:58:06)
>>>g3xg6     (1:38:51,0:58:06)  18.97 15 12950942 02:51 8633112 (0) 14 18.97 Rg3xg6
>>>h7xg6 Qd8xc8 Kh8-g7 Bd3-c4 Bf8-b4 Qc8xe6 Rf7-e7 Qe6-g8 Kg7-h6 Qg8-f8 Re7-g7
>>>Qf8xb4 Kh6-h7 Bc4xa6
>>>h7xg6     (1:38:51,0:56:03)
>>>d8xc8     (1:36:42,0:56:03)  20.57 14 12149319 01:29 4515394 (0) 13 20.56 Qd8xc8
>>>Kh8-h7 Bd3-c4 Bf8-e7 Bc4xe6 Rf7-g7 Rd1-d3 Be7-g5 Rd3-h3 Bg5-h6 Qc8-d8 Rg7-f7
>>>Be6xf7
>>>h8-h7     (1:24:00,0:46:53)
>>>d3-c4     (1:24:00,0:46:53)  26.90 13 33172910 04:04 10950485 (0) 12 26.90
>>>Bd3-c4 Bf8-g7 Qc8xe6 Rf7-f6 Qe6-g8 Kh7-h6 Rd1-d7 Kh6-g5 Qg8xg7 c6-c5 h2-h4
>>>Kg5xh4 Qg7xf6
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 20:36:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 07:50:19, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually everyone wonders for years already why crafty
>>>>>is tactical so weak. It won't be long before you also
>>>>>beat it in time to find combi's sooner.
>>>>
>>>>If it is so "tactically weak" why can't you or your program blow it
>>>>off the board in games???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 27, 2002 at 07:14:19, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>> singular extension..................0.75
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does crafty use singular extensions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It seems not to be very important here because
>>>>>>movei without singular extensions seems to solve it faster
>>>>>>(if you consider the fact that my p850 is an inferior hardware)
>>>>>>and at smaller depth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Movei needs slightly more than a minute with p850(128 Mbytes hash)
>>>>>>but Crafty17.14 on the same hardware needs almost 3 minutes and
>>>>>>remember that movei does not use hash tables in an efficient way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]r6r/k4pp1/pq2p2p/1p1n4/3N3P/1R6/PPP1QPP1/2KR4 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>9 120 6585 8133249 d4b5
>>>>>>9 242 7508 9423216 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6d6 d1d4 d5c3 b5a5 a7b7 b2c3 d6d4 e2f3 b7b6
>>>>>>c3d4 a8a5 f3f7 a5a2 f7g7
>>>>>>9 242 7755 9764522 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6d6 d1d4 d5c3 b5a5 a7b7 b2c3 d6d4 e2f3 b7b6
>>>>>>c3d4 a8a5 f3f7 a5a2 f7g7
>>>>>>10 296 9238 11782740 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 a6b6
>>>>>>e7d6 b6a7 d6d5
>>>>>>10 296 9870 12649414 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6 a6b6
>>>>>>e7d6 b6a7 d6d5
>>>>>>11 360 17417 23221197 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6
>>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 h8f8 d5d4 a7b7 d4g7
>>>>>>11 360 18740 24983892 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6
>>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6a7 d6d5 h8f8 d5d4 a7b7 d4g7
>>>>>>12 358 26617 35920723 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6
>>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6b5 d6d5 b5b6 d5f7 a8a7
>>>>>>12 358 30895 41946016 d4b5 a6b5 b3b5 b6c6 d1d5 e6d5 e2e7 a7a6 b5b3 c6b6 b3b6
>>>>>>a6b6 e7d6 b6b5 d6d5 b5b6 d5f7 a8a7
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri



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