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Subject: Re: Here's one example

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:38:07 08/05/02

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On August 05, 2002 at 17:57:14, John Merlino wrote:

>On August 05, 2002 at 17:46:57, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2002 at 16:40:17, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>On August 05, 2002 at 03:10:07, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>
>>>>[D]8/4rk2/1p2r3/1Pp5/2Pp4/1K1P4/2PQ4/8 w - -
>>>>
>>>>Crafty's evalution after 14 ply +1,56.
>>>>
>>>>Jouni
>>>
>>>Chessmaster 9000 says draw:
>>>
>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>0:00	1/3	-0.11	931		1.Qg2 Rf6 2.Qd5+ Ree6 3.c3
>>>0:00	1/3	-0.09	1210		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qh5+ Rf7 3.Qd5
>>>0:00	1/4	0.00	3468		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Kf7 3.Qg5
>>>0:00	1/5	0.00	10927		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Kf7 3.Qg5
>>>0:00	1/6	0.00	22026		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Kf7 3.Qg5
>>>0:01	1/7	-0.01	60257		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qg8+ Kd7 3.Qb8 Rf6
>>>					4.Qb7+ Ke8 5.Qd5 Rfe6 6.c3
>>>0:01	2/8	0.00	90638		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Qb7
>>>					Kf8
>>>0:02	3/9	0.00	203356		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>0:06	4/10	0.00	509136		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>0:16	5/11	0.00	1401084		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>0:42	6/12	0.00	3677032		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>1:51	7/13	0.00	9804440		1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>4:49	8/14	0.00	25940648	1.Qg5 Ke8 2.Qd5 Rf6 3.c3 Re3 4.Kc2
>>>					Rf2+ 5.Kb3 Rf6
>>>
>>>jm
>>
>>
>>The problem is that CM believes black is _losing_.  And so will try to go for
>>a perpetual.  If the eval were a tad different, and it believed that white is
>>winning here, then it would not see the repetition as it could avoid it whenever
>>it wants with WTM...
>
>You mean "WHITE is _losing_" in your first sentence, right?
>
>You also mentioned (in a different post) that a queen is equal to two rooks,
>unless "the rooks get doubled and cannot be separated". That certainly is the
>case here, possibly leading to CM's concerns for White's game.
>
>jm


Sorry... I have gotten used to Crafty's -=good for black scores and mis-read
yours.

In any case, I don't believe I have ever seen two rooks beat a queen when
the two opponents were computer programs.  The two rooks draw pretty easily,
but if there are any chances to win, it lies with the queen.  And as I said
also, given more pieces, say a pair of bishops, I would prefer the queen to
two rooks any day of the week...



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