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Subject: Re: To Robert Hyatt, Dan Corbit, Christophe Theron , And Other Experts.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:37:21 08/06/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 05, 2002 at 17:54:22, James Swafford wrote:

>On August 05, 2002 at 11:45:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2002 at 11:10:55, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>Do computers make decisions?
>>>If so, what is your definition of a "computer decision" and how it relates and
>>>differs from human decisions?
>>>
>>>Please cite examples. This can be from chess to any area of so-called "machine
>>>intelligence", please give _your_ answers, as well as information that can be
>>>obtained on the net.
>>>
>>>Your help with these answers will be greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>>Thanks in Advance.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>> Terry McCracken
>>
>>
>>A couple of points.
>>
>>First, _yes_ a computer makes decisions.  For example, you can use an
>>external A/D converter to measure two temperatures in a steam plant and make
>>a decision as to which burner should be turned up or down based on those
>>measurements.
>>
>
>
>I disagree Bob.  Decision implies choice.  There is no choice; it's
>preprogrammed.  When a computer can arbitrarily decide whether it wants
>to perform an action, with some level of cognition, then I will concede
>that they can make decisions.  But now they are pretty stupid, despite
>what Turing tests would say.
>



In that case I don't think humans make "decisions" either.  It is one thing
to say "if (a) then (b) else (c)" as that is pretty simplistic.  But do you
_really_ think that I took care of every possible case in the evaluation,
explicitly?  Or does the program sum up a large number of factors, then make
a decision based on that summation?  Which is _exactly_ what I do as a human
when I make decisions.  IE I certainly didn't program in _every_ possible
chess position into Crafty.  Yet it can handle any possible position you give
it and make a decision about which move to play, whether it is right or wrong
(of course).



>
>>Second, does a computer make decisions like _we_ do?  Impossible to say.  IE
>>can you _prove_ that the human mind doesn't rely on anything other than pure
>>binary values?  Nobody has to date, so that is an open question.  Wouldn't it
>>be funny if we one day find out that at the elementary level, everything we do
>>is on/off?  :)
>
>Ahh.. I see where you are going now.  Well, you're basically asking if we're
>all preprogrammed morons that really aren't making decisions for ourselves,
>but doing what we are programmed to do.  So what you're really really asking
>is if there is such a thing as fate, or predestiny. :)  Nah. :))
>


Not a convincing argument to me.  :)

Einstein said "nothing is random".  Which means _everything_ can be computed
if you just know all the variables.  :)



>
>
>>
>>Perhaps one of the best examples of "making a decision" is in computer chess,
>>where the computer has to choose between N moves and pick just one.  That is
>>_clearly_ a decision...
>
>I don't think so.
>
>--
>James

Then I don't believe humans make decisions when they play chess either.  After
all, you learned your "ideas" from someone...




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