Author: Ed Panek
Date: 11:52:06 08/06/02
Go up one level in this thread
On August 06, 2002 at 10:37:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On August 05, 2002 at 17:54:22, James Swafford wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2002 at 11:45:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 05, 2002 at 11:10:55, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>
>>>>Do computers make decisions?
>>>>If so, what is your definition of a "computer decision" and how it relates and
>>>>differs from human decisions?
>>>>
>>>>Please cite examples. This can be from chess to any area of so-called "machine
>>>>intelligence", please give _your_ answers, as well as information that can be
>>>>obtained on the net.
>>>>
>>>>Your help with these answers will be greatly appreciated!
>>>>
>>>>Thanks in Advance.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>> Terry McCracken
>>>
>>>
>>>A couple of points.
>>>
>>>First, _yes_ a computer makes decisions. For example, you can use an
>>>external A/D converter to measure two temperatures in a steam plant and make
>>>a decision as to which burner should be turned up or down based on those
>>>measurements.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I disagree Bob. Decision implies choice. There is no choice; it's
>>preprogrammed. When a computer can arbitrarily decide whether it wants
>>to perform an action, with some level of cognition, then I will concede
>>that they can make decisions. But now they are pretty stupid, despite
>>what Turing tests would say.
>>
>
>
>
>In that case I don't think humans make "decisions" either. It is one thing
>to say "if (a) then (b) else (c)" as that is pretty simplistic. But do you
>_really_ think that I took care of every possible case in the evaluation,
>explicitly? Or does the program sum up a large number of factors, then make
>a decision based on that summation? Which is _exactly_ what I do as a human
>when I make decisions. IE I certainly didn't program in _every_ possible
>chess position into Crafty. Yet it can handle any possible position you give
>it and make a decision about which move to play, whether it is right or wrong
>(of course).
>
>
If humans make decisions the same way computers do thats saying very poor
things for computers.
Humans are notoriously poor decision makers...look at World History
Ed
>
>>
>>>Second, does a computer make decisions like _we_ do? Impossible to say. IE
>>>can you _prove_ that the human mind doesn't rely on anything other than pure
>>>binary values? Nobody has to date, so that is an open question. Wouldn't it
>>>be funny if we one day find out that at the elementary level, everything we do
>>>is on/off? :)
>>
>>Ahh.. I see where you are going now. Well, you're basically asking if we're
>>all preprogrammed morons that really aren't making decisions for ourselves,
>>but doing what we are programmed to do. So what you're really really asking
>>is if there is such a thing as fate, or predestiny. :) Nah. :))
>>
>
>
>Not a convincing argument to me. :)
>
>Einstein said "nothing is random". Which means _everything_ can be computed
>if you just know all the variables. :)
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Perhaps one of the best examples of "making a decision" is in computer chess,
>>>where the computer has to choose between N moves and pick just one. That is
>>>_clearly_ a decision...
>>
>>I don't think so.
>>
>>--
>>James
>
>Then I don't believe humans make decisions when they play chess either. After
>all, you learned your "ideas" from someone...
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