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Subject: Re: 3 interviews about engine protocols with T. Mann, R. Hyatt and M. Blume

Author: Peter McKenzie

Date: 19:42:26 08/15/02

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I pretty much disagree with everything you said.

Its perfectly possible to be super strong without any big secrets.  Attention to
detail, improving the little things, and a whole lot of blood sweat and tears
will get you a very long way.  Oh, and did I mention testing?  Good testing
helps heaps.

5% inspiration, 95% perspiration :-)

Of course, some commercial engines have big secrets, but I don't think they are
necessary to be super strong.

On August 15, 2002 at 21:43:14, Russell Reagan wrote:

>On August 15, 2002 at 18:04:56, Will Singleton wrote:
>
>>With regard to one of Hyatt's statements, "The commercial
>>programs are using some form of forward pruning that they won't discuss", I have
>>seen hints of such in dicussions here.
>
>There have been vague hints, yes. But nothing meaningful. When I think of their
>hints, it makes me think of a rocket scientist who discovered a way to travel to
>Mars and back in a matter of minutes. When asked about how he did it, he
>replied, "I made a space ship that travels at the speed of light." Gee, thanks.
>That's not really helpful now is it? The commercial author's will give "hints"
>like, "I use forward pruning". Neither the rocket scientist or the commercial
>engine author's tell you how they accomplished what they did, only that they did
>it, which isn't very helpful. Certainly not anywhere close to as helpful as
>anything Bob has done. Then again, the fact that they are "commercial" means
>they are in it for the money, not for educational purposes. It would be nice to
>see them give something back though, since they surely learned something along
>the way from a program like Crafty, or the other amateur engines out there.
>
>>But is it logical to assume that only
>>the commercials are using secret techniques?
>
>Not *only* the commercials, but _only_ the commercials are using "big" secrets.
>See below...
>
>>There are several strong amateur
>>programs whose authors also do not discuss their techniques.
>
>While this is true that there are amateur engines that keep secrets, I seriously
>doubt that any of those secrets are "big" secrets. I think it is 100% safe to
>conclude that the commercial engines are keeping some "big" secrets. Probably
>what Bob said, forward pruning methods. Here is my reasoning.
>
>1. Crafty makes use of techniques and methods that are well known, and in
>addition to that, Bob has always been willing to explain how any part of Crafty
>works.
>
>2. No amateur engine has drastically surpassed Crafty. Yes, some may be slightly
>better, but they are still much closer to Crafty's playing level than they are
>to the level of Fritz and friends.
>
>This leads me to believe that no amateur is using any "big" secret, or else they
>wouldn't be on par with Crafty, which has no secrets. I think there might be
>small secrets within some of the strong amateur engines, which would account for
>the slight increase in playing ability compared to Crafty, at times.
>
>I think the fact that there are only one or two amateur engines that can even
>score greater than 40% against the commercial engines some of the time says
>something. I think it's a little niave to believe that the commercial engines
>aren't keeping any secrets.
>
>>The commercials don't have a corner on secrecy, nor should they.
>
>They have a corner on the cutting edge secrets. IE the "big" secrets.
>
>Russell



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