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Subject: Re: Is Deep Blue still considered better than Deep Junior ?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:25:17 08/19/02

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On August 18, 2002 at 23:33:02, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 18, 2002 at 23:24:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 18, 2002 at 23:05:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On August 18, 2002 at 22:41:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 18, 2002 at 21:55:06, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 18, 2002 at 21:21:52, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 18, 2002 at 16:17:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 18, 2002 at 11:08:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 18, 2002 at 09:06:02, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No for many reasons
>>>>>>>>  a) deep blue is old and how many old programs are still considered
>>>>>>>>     'good'?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Even programs that reigned the world for 10 years (genius) completely
>>>>>>>>get butchered with x-0 scores nowadays.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Genius is not losing x-0 unless x is very small.
>>>>>>>It is clearly weaker than the top programs of today but not so weak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>against movei perhaps. Against DIEP it's 100% simply. 20Mhz preprocessor
>>>>>>dedicated genius getting 7 ply with 1000 move book
>>>>>>against 1 million move diep book getting 10-14 ply.
>>>>>
>>>>>I thought about genius on the hardware of today otherwise it is not fair to say
>>>>>"Even programs that reigned the world for 10 years (genius) completely
>>>>>get butchered with x-0 scores nowadays."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is software+hardware and not only the software.
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree that software+hardware of 10 years ago are losing x-0 against
>>>>>software+hardware of today.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't even agree with that.  I played Crafty vs Cray Blitz, using 1992
>>>>hardware (a C90) and Cray Blitz won 7-3.  That certainly is _one_ example
>>>>where Vincent's statement is false...
>>>
>>>
>>>Vincent was talking about genius.
>>>
>>>Genius with the hardware of 1992 is losing 10-0 against the top programs of
>>>today with 2002's hardware.
>>>
>>>How many games did Cray blitz with the 1992's hardware play in computer
>>>tournaments?
>>>
>>
>>at least 15.  We played in 1992, 1993 and 1994 ACM events...
>>
>>>
>>>I know that it did not play in WCCC of 1995 when Fritz3 became the world
>>>champion.
>>>
>>>I do not know about a single tournament that it played.
>>>
>>
>>Now you do.  I just gave you three.  Last one was 1994 in Cape May New
>>Jersey.  Won by Deep Thought.
>
>I understand that it played only a single game against deep thought
>and a program may lose a single game and be significantly better than the
>opponent.
>
>I believe that it was signifcantly better than deep thought inspite of the
>single loss.
>
>Uri


I have _no_ idea what you might be basing that on.  I _know_ the difference
between the two programs.  DT was better, by a significant margin.



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