Author: Chris Carson
Date: 10:36:49 08/19/02
Go up one level in this thread
On August 19, 2002 at 11:27:15, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 19, 2002 at 09:12:31, Chris Carson wrote: > >>On August 18, 2002 at 21:51:35, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 18, 2002 at 12:48:02, Chris Carson wrote: >>> >>>>On August 18, 2002 at 10:38:19, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>How would you figure that? Deep Thought produced a 2650 rating over 25 >>>>>consecutive 40/2hr games against GM players. Anybody else done that yet? >>>>>Not that I have seen. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Deep Thought was a great piece of HW/SW for it's time. Just a few observations >>>>when comparing to today's program: >>>> >>>>1. DT did that aginst GM's with average ELO of 2475 (not very strong for GM's). >>>> >>>>2. DT played against GM's that had far less experience (none) using >>>>anti-computer tatics. >>>> >>>>3. There are a lot of tatical/strategic holes in DT games that modern >>>>commercial programs do not make. >>>> >>>>4. Today's programs would crush DT. >>>> >>>>5. The GM's that DJ, DF, CT, Rebel, Hiarcs, The King have played recently would >>>>crush DT. >>>> >>>>6. DT would have no chance in a match with a 2700 GM (today) that had 100 games >>>>of preparation, Rebel played this GM even for 4 games. >>>> >>>>7. I am pretty sure I could crush DT today. >>>> >>>>Chris >>> >>> >>>I can't prove anything about deep thought, but I'll offer you a chance to >>>put up or shut up on point 7. Deep Thought easily beat Cray Blitz every time >>>we played (except for the first, where we could have won had we not run into >>>a serious bug). Cray Blitz waxed Crafty in a 10 game match last year. >>>That means _you_ should be able to wax crafty on my quad xeon easily if you >>>could crush deep thought. >>> >>>Let me know when you are ready to "take the test". >>> >>>I don't believe you can do it for a minute... >>> >>>But the ball is in your court to accept the challenge... >> >>Here are all the PGN's for DT and DB. Cherry pick any you like. I do not think >>DT/DB or HSU needs the help, their accomplishments were very good, but no need >>to make them out to be better than today's programs or mis-represent them, you >>do more harm than help. >> >>Here are the ELO's against FIDE rated players for DT/DB and Commercials, the >>commercials have passed DT and DB96 ELO performance, DB97 will fall when it >>falls: >> >>PGN's: http://home.interact.se/~w100107/welcome.htm >> >>Ratings HvC: http://home.interact.se/~w100107/manmachine.htm >> >>I am done discussing this with you unless you can "show with PGN's" something >>different. >> >>Chris > > >I never collected DT pgns. However, I _know_ what happened to win the >Fredkin prize. The opponents and results _might_ be in an older ISSUE of >the JICCA. I will check when I have time... > >I haven't seen _any_ results where a micro produced a 2650 over 25 consecutive >games. Yes, you can cherry-pick a tournament here and there. But 25 games >is at least 3 events in a row.... You ignore two points, or at least discount them: 1. Commercial programs can be played anytime. A GM played 100 games against Rebel, I will ask Ed what the score was, then played a 4 game match. DT/DB did not allow people to play prep games, you have held it against the commercials in the past, but not DT/DB. DT did play a lot of games however, but noone individual had a lot of games against it. 2. Anti-computer tactics. This would reduce DT rating by 100 or more points and a second hundred point reduction if the 25 games were match play. Most of the commercials games are match play, in tournament they do a lot better (about 100 points or more) Again, DT/DB was great, HSU deserves a lot of credit. The commercials have exceded it thought, DB97 would be crushed by Kramnik or Kasparov with preparation games. Just my opinion, but based on DT/DB and commercial performance.
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